mattp

I mean we'll see you there, right?

I don't know how you learned to speak, Dru, but a day "of" rain does not necessarily mean 24 hours non-stop rain to anybody but maybe you.

OK then. We'll Archie and RumR at 8:00? Or are you simply Internet stalking in violation of Federal law?

Maybe they have a private room for you in the back.

And, might I suggest, Archie and Catbird are hereby cordially invited to fight it out over the pool table. Rumr too.

Unless your intent is simply to annoy, while using an anonymous Internet identity, one should NEVER enter an argument about where pubclub might be or who is going to be there -- unless, of course, they intend to appear at said event.

Leavenworth has great climbing generally one to three pitches, though there are some longer routes there. The scenery is great and, as Trog noted, the weather tends to be slightly better on the east slope of the mountains. The camping is good. 2 1/2 hrs drive. If you want steep cracks, Index is closer to Seattle and offers some of the best crack climbing anywhere - generally one to five pitches. 1 1/2 hours drive. Camping is limited. If you want longer routes with slightly more of a wilderness feel, tending toward slab climbing, Darrington has several granite domes only 1 1/2 hours drive from Seattle. It is a rainy area. Camping is good. Depending on the Spring weather, a variety of granite rock climbs with an alpine feel may by then be high and dry, with some snow on the approaches, up at Washington Pass (3 1/2 hours). Great views! Good campgrounds are nearby. For world-class climbing, head to Squamish. 3 1/2 hrs drive. If it rains, as it often does on Memorial Day, head to Vantage for one-pitch sport and trad climbing in the Washington desert. Tieton is slightly less reliable, but also a good wet-weather refuge from the west side rain belt. MaNY Of these In Eric and Lucie's bus trip - look for it with Google. Google "Index rock climbing" etc. and you'll find other sites, too (like my Darrington site). A summary or profile of many Washington climbing areas appears here: Washington Climbers Coalition web site

You can see this has zipper access to the bottom of the sack; it also has straps on the top lid to convert to a fanny pack, and it has "bayonet" frame stays, meaning the upward extensions of the frame above neck level can be removed so that you have better ability to tilt your head back, or added to support a higher load. The waste belt is the most comfortable I"ve ever carried even though it is not some super padded ergonomic affair like so many packmakers seem to feel is necessary. I can even throw in the side pockets that came with it.

Let me know if you are interested and we can make a deal. These are great packs; I just don't use it because I have two other packs that are both smaller but large enough for me. McHale packs have the shoulder straps fixed, so this will fit someone roughly 5.11.

If it has to be on your way home from the gym, the Kangaroo and Kiwi has proven fairly popular in the past and you could get a headstart on your drive.

I've got a McHale monster pack I'd gladly part with. It is NOT light weight, but it IS probably the toughest and biggest pack on the market, and it carrys a huge load more efficiently than any pack I've ever known. If you plan on carrying climbing gear and two weeks' food into some place for a basecamp, it'd be your tool of choice.

I bet Classic Crack in Leavenworth would prove an eye opening 5.8. I realize it is not quite a "sustained wide crack," but I've seen plenty of climbers stumped by it. The full GM (not Heart of the Country) would be another.

Shameful opportunitic politics or insight?

Go man go:

Thread drift?

Check out this editorial on how the press is not doing its job. Washington Post

We'll have to wait and see what happens. I’ve always wanted to have at least some CCH Aliens on my rack because they fit spots where other cams don’t, even though they are prone to getting bunged up more quickly than other small cams. If quality control isn’t resolved, however, I’ll be buying something else next time I replace anything. Interesting how that thread resembles a cc.com discussion: a dozen guys repeating the exact same arguments and presenting them as a new "insight," unfounded accusations and speculation, and grandstanding by guys who know nothing about the matter. Not surprisingly, the subject (target) of the discussion may decide to lay low. I’d like to see a company representative discuss these issues but I would not be surprised to see CCH delay or avoid direct engagement there no matter what the facts turn out to be. Checking with Google, I find no cch website. The Internet does not appear to be their media choice.

For some more unsolicited advice, let me say that in my opinion Mount Rainier is not the god of NW peaks. Mount Baker, for example, offers all of the alpine ambience in the form of a fully glacial-clad volcano and all but without the altitude problems. Coming from Michigan, you will not be acclimated. Other Cascade peaks will offer more varied alpine climbing, and you'd have a great vacation if you were able to climb two or three smaller peaks such as Eldorado, Shuksan, and Liberty Bell, all of which are likely to be in good climbing shape in May or early June. Don't get me wrong: Mt. Rainier IS cool. Stand on top on a clear day and you can see Canada and Oregon; inland plains and the Pacific Ocean. By the way, my brother was on El Capitan when his second son was born (early). Allow extra time to get home before the big day.

Right on, Jay. Good response. Now, are you still gonna argue that....

[i asked if he had known the specific details of the salary scale discussion when he posted his inital "it is known fact that hazardous jobs always earn more pay" or whatver -- this is a crude synopsis, I admit -- and then asked if he was now suggesting this meant the mining operators might be seen as less responsible or that we should have less sympathy for the victims, but when I posted it I saw Jay had answered my questions in a post entered while I was composing mine]

I don't completely disagree with JMckay but I certainly do in part. I grew up in Ann Arbor, learned to climb on a top-rope at Grand Ledge, and came west to climb in the Tetons with no guide or experienced professional assistance. My friends and I took one day of instruction with Exum guides and we went out and practiced the stuff we'd read about in books. Then we did some backpacking and finished by climbing the Middle Teton by an obscure but not too difficult route. You don't HAVE to have professional instruction. You CAN come out here and hook up with somebody you meet on cc.com and you will probably live and very likely even enjoy yourself. Lots of us are more than capable of showing someone a good time on Mount Adams, Baker, Rainier or perhaps Mt. Shuksan and plenty of people have hooked up that way on this site -- not just females. JMcKay is right to suggest you ask yourself why they might want to take their vacation time to take a stranger out climbing, though, and that may be because they hope to get laid or because they don't have enough social skills to get a local partner. Ask questions. If you are inclined to want to maximize what you do and want more of a sure bet, a professional will very likely be able to teach you more, get you up a big climb faster, and perhaps more safely than some yahoo with a big mouth (or a busy keyboard, as the case may be). A professional guide is certainly a good idea, but don't assume you must and don't immediately discount the idea if somebody says Hey BarryAnnArbor: we're climbing Mt. Shuksan May 15 or so if you want to join us.

That sympathy is probably well placed, Jon, though if you knew more about the circumstances of some of those miners you might find great sympathy for their families, too -- of course maybe not but my point is the war hero has been celebrated as such and I would guess that contributes to your feeling.

JayB: I buried the nub of my argument. Try this: Assuming you are correct in your assertion that that the miners must have made more money than others in the community who had safer jobs, do you believe the miners in Tallmansville were likely to have been fairly compensated for the risks they took? Is this intended to suggest in any way that we shouldn't feel sorry for them or their families because they knew the risks and glady accepted them?

Looks good, Jay, but you distinctly said "all mining" takes place in remote areas, and that is just not quite true. Yes, it is plainly obvious, I suppose, that they don't generally mine near cities and residential areas and we need not waste our time quibbling over that fact. As to the statisitcs about the relatively high wages, I am sure that, all other things being equal, workers would rather work a safe job for the same pay so there is some upward pressure on wages for high-risk employment. However, I don't think that over the course of history that has been sufficient to overcome the unequal bargainning power enjoyed by mine operators and miners. In a quick Internet search we find only statistics supplied by mining companies or the state agencies connected to "econimic development and promotion." It'd be interesting to know just what the dead guys in Tallmansville were earning, and how much their cousins who worked above ground in the immediate area earned by comparison. My guess is that neither the State of West Virginia or the Mining Association of America can be counted on to provide accurate statistics.

"I think younger workers — first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government — promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 4, 2005