mattp

One thing they probably won't teach you in Chicago is what to do when you cannot hear your belayer. Even at the big climbing areas like Jackson Falls or Devil's Lake you don't have the experience we find common on longer climbs in a more mountainous setting or more complex crag where you may pass over a bulge or around a corner and cannot communicate visually or vocally. I use one single and simple signal. The leader gives five quick tugs of the rope. It means "stop belaying and start climbing." The leader may have a belay set up, or they may be just short of a belay and need the second to start out so they can get there. The message is the same. You probably don't want to use tugs in the other direction, as without having visual or voice contact, the belayer could misunderstand and pull on the leader while they are in a tenuous position. By the way: I was taught the same "reasoning" for the one, two and three-syllable calls that Rad describes, but I'm not sure that it has ever worked out that I could hear syllables but not the calls -- in 35 years of climbing. It is not uncommon that I can hear the other guy yelling something I don't know what it is, but I'm not sure I could ever count syllables and this worked to communicate.

I think I clearly stated that I agree with this argument, JayB. I don't think, as you may, that our President and his men have undertaken most of this war against terror in good faith. I also think it is pretty clear that on this fear-mongering business it is THIS Administration much more than their critics who've been over the top.

That's the ticket, JayB!

I agree it seems like a poor idea to start recommending the call "rope" to mean "feed me more rope" because formerly many climbers were taught "up rope" as meaning "pull in the rope" and simply "rope" as meaning "heads up." Maybe we need to re-define all the signals and teach a new method - kind of like how we should probably switch to metric from feet and inches some time, but it seems to me the calls we have been using are just fine. I've already been confused by new signals coming from the gym's - as in where my buddy yelled "take" several years ago and I had never heard it before and thought he was yelling "slack." Needless to say, I didn't do what he intended. I'd favor sticking with the traditional calls : on-belay, climb, up rope, slack etc. and augmenting them with more specific informative ones like where I use "clipped through" to tell my belayer I've clipped a piece and they can now belay accordingly. That signal especially helps when I've clipped over my head in a double rope setup and for the next couple of moves I want the belayer to simultaneously feed one rope while pulling in the other, or where I'm sketched and want a snug belay after I just a minute ago called for slack -- and it has not caused confusion.

Gosh, ChucK. I DID watch the video. Well ... not the whole thing but I watched most of it as I cooked breakfast and got ready to go to work yesterday. I did not mean to imply comment on the video, but on what I would expect to be the reaction from JayB, KK, and Fairweather. They are pretty consistent on this stuff. As to Cocoa's complaint: I agree that there are certain parts of her presentation I find less then 100% compelling. I DO however believe that this administration has used fear mongering in the manner that she described - at least in general terms. Clearly, for example, they told us that we had to take out Saddam or we'd find confirmation of his weaponry in the form of a mushroom cloud over New York (cue Peter Puget with the tired old "imminent" v. "gathering" threat argument). Maybe I was in the other room putting toothpaste on my toothbrush at that moment, but I didn't hear her saying that there were no sleeper cells posing a threat to the U.S. so much as saying that the Administration has lied about them and their response to them in a manner designed to inflate our fear and cause us to forgo challenges to an imposition on our civil rights. I didn't hear that message in this speech, but to me she loses greater credibility in where she hash previously suggested that Bush and Co are not going to relinquish the throne next year. From where I sit, it looks like "they" are doing just fine on the power-control-facism front and "they" don't need to do something as blatant as that. I'm not quite saying that Bush and pals are merely pawns, but from the point of view of those who stand to get rich or lose money on all of this, for those in power seats in the military-industrial board rooms, and even for prospects for one political party over the other for the next dozen years, I doubt it makes as much difference as we might hope it would who gets elected next year. Either way, we are not likely to pull out troops out of Iraq in a big hurry, the oil companies are still going to have the Whitehouse serving them, and I doubt military contractors are going to suffer much. I'd be quite surprised if we had slid so far down the Facist slippery slope that they thought now was the time to make such a dramatic move as openly suspending the Constitution.

I don't know all of the candidates, but I don't think David Della or Jean Godden are really the "liberal" choices in either of their respective races. The King County Labor Council does not necessarily reflect traditional liberal values.

How could they consider even thinking about a single thing she says? She is of the liberal "ilk" and clearly she worships the ground that Hugo Chavez walks on, she wears Birkenstocks in private, and she must believe that 12-year-olds should have unrestricted access to free abortions.

Why do I get automatically logged out when I post a private message?

Nope. I think it was a different guy who used the fence post clamps. They are pretty bomber looking - kind of like an open cold shut but more secure and way huge, but with vaguely sharp edges to them. They were not manufactured for climbing but I have no worries that they will break any time soon.

I was a big fan of those Fixe stations for a while, and I've draped a lot of them all over the rock in Darrington. I like them because you can buy them powder-coated, and they are easy to deal with when you arrive at or leave a belay station. Also, my original thinking was that many climbers want to see climbing equipment at a belay station rather than some hardware store mystery mank. More recently, however, I've come to prefer short lengths of chain and quick links. The bigger the better. It is not as important to set these up with the bolts within a 1/4" of the right distance from each other, you can get chain that is bigger and accepts fat-stock carabiners more easily, and someone will be able to swap them out more easily without necessarily having to remove a hanger. The Fixe stuff seems of mixed quality, too. I bought several powder coated chain anchors that were sold as stainless steel but were not, and some of the welds are a bit rough. Either way, good quality hardware is not cheap. I can see why some folks who are establishing a lot of climbs might be tempted to use a variety of sub-standard materials and employ whatever they may buy at a garage sale or close-out bin. On Squire Creek Wall there are several belay stations that are made with galvanized fence clamps!

I'm a big fan of the guy, warts and all, and I've asked him about preparing his notes and files for archiving and discussed similar matters with him more than once. I'm not sure what motivates him to be hesitant about interviews and profiles - it is rarely either simple or clear what motivates any of us to seek attention or avoid it in various different contexts - but I HAVE observed that many people have taken shots at Fred over the years. Whether mean spirited or self-serving or whatever, people love to say "I know Fred Beckey and he's cool and all but .... " Does he deserve it? Maybe so, maybe not. But I don't think I've observed the same kind of pattern with other climbers of similar stature. By the way, Fred is cool and all, but he can be a pain in the neck. I hope he's around for years to come.

I don't remember clearly but I think I did actually climb some toprope thing at Quincy Quarries for my first actual rock climb but I may have only watched. I remember someting called yellow spot. My next climb was a year after that when I followed my brother up the SW Ridge of the Grand Teton at age twelve.

I hope to go replace some of those bolts on Dirt Circus some time. That first pitch of Daylight (I assume you mean the first two half-pitches?) is one of the best 5.8 pitches in Darrington, in my opinion. -- I can't tell you where Visionquest is. You'd probably go try to poach the second pitch.

What did you guys climb? Get any good pictures? I witnessed a totally rad first ascent on Saturday.

True to form, Pope references what he calls "the quote in question" but omits reference to the VERY NEXT SENTENCE of my post: This doesn't necessarily mean that sport climbing is the pinnacle of development, and it could even be read to suggest you and your pal Pope may be right that we could next see via ferrata rigs on boulders,... Here's what you did, Pope, which I think DOES illuminate your "take" in cc.com bolt discussions ... In the italicized paragraph above (yours quoting me), you deliberately left out the part of my post that undermines your critique of the rest of it. Clever subtext to readership: cc.com's bolting critics will do anything to distort the discussion. There's plenty of room for debate, and you guys make some good points - but how about making your arguments and providing information without all the bullshit?

Pope: you have a problem with reading comprehension; I guess you don't teach English, huh? Yes, I used the word "improvements" and I was talking about bolts, but did you read my post? I didn't say what my "take" on modern practices may be, but I clearly didn't say that I see all bolting as an "improvement" and I wrote that the historical trend I noted might be read to support YOUR arguments in some respects. I realize you want to stir the pot around here and make this a "bolt vs no-bolt" reality, but you fool only the uninformed - such as non-climbing land managers or novices who are interested in these topics but don't have the background to know what you are talking about. A climber of your vast experience and expertise surely is capable of more informative discussion.

You can refill at the top of the Summit Wall at Mt. Erie. Somebody dumped out their relative's ashes up there, and didn't do much to sprinkle them around.

Yo Dwayner: Read a little history and you will find that since rock climbing emerged as a sport apart from mountain climbing there has been a general trend where each successive generation's improvements are criticized by the prior. Roped belaying was decried by some in the early 20th century, pitons in the 20's, aid climbing in the 50's, and even cams were said by some to be cheating when they came out in the '70's. Ths doesn't necessarily mean that sport climbing is the pinnacle of development, and it could even be read to suggest you and your pal Pope mayt be right that we could next see via ferrata rigs on boulders, but your little history lesson is a little incomplete.

I think there are definitely at least two sides to the debate when it comes to whether conservation and stewardship on public lands mean "let nature take over" or "lets take care of what we have while fostering human appreciation and enjoyment of the wild" (obviously, this dichotomy ignores other goals for the management of public lands, like water supply protection or resource extraction or ...). The Sierra Club was founded by people who believed in getting out and experiencing the wonders of nature, and they even used to run trips and stuff (maybe they still do). In our more recent experience, the Trust for Public Lands and the Chelan County Land Trust bought a parcel in Icicle Creek specifically with the intent of allowing rock climbing to continue there. There clearly remains a strong and vocal contingent who believes that recreational use of wild lands is inherently destructive, but there are others who believe that managed recreational use is part of the reason for public land ownership. In my personal opinion, we want to work with the latter. Sorry you won't make our meeting.

Cool. If the politics of Environmental Groups and "green" legislation aren't "hot" enough for you, the reality that we gotta get our act together or we're going to lose many roads seving crags and hiking destinations ought to be of interest. And who doesn't want to watch slides on a dark November evening?

So well spoken....I need to buy you a beer. Any time... It should also be noted that by launching a suicide attack on New York and Washington, the 9/11 terrorists gave the President and his men the excuse to do exactly what they wanted to do anyway. There is no doubt about their aims in shunning Europe while invading Iraq: they set it all out in their Blueprint for a New American Century. And our man Cheney has been all about the unitary presidenc for many years. As nominee Mukasey said "...the president’s authority as commander in chief might [now] allow him to supersede laws written by Congress." It was definitely a match made in heaven for those guys.

Hey Joseph: the E-Mail addy I have for you doesn't work and private messages aren't working either. Send me an e-mail. mattp at seanet.com

I was most definitely impressed with the presentation. That was not rude. I only had a small bite, but I suffered no ill effects.

The pack I have is what he now calls the Super-Critical Mass II. It has the bayonet feature, which means you can add or remove the frame extensions that tower over your head, it has the bypass shoulder straps, and it is extra huge. It doesn't have a bunch of weird straps all over it, the sleeping bag compartment is huge, and you won't blow the zippers on one of Mr. McHale's packs. I have had two other of his packs and I've liked them. The pack I currently use for 2-5 day trips is a McHale.