mattp

I always wonder what somebody is thinking when they take the time to post to a thread like this one: why don't you guys discontinue the discussion and it is not based on any stated concern for any affect that discussion may have on somebody else. It would be one thing if he was suggesting that this discussion was somhow harmful, but he's not. Is Woofalot worried about Tvash' use of his precious time? is Woofy trying to tell us how superior he is? What? Why not simply ignore a discussion if you disapprove of the time spent on that topic? Nobody's forcing you to either read or respond to it.

WIth all the big hair and wieghtlifters, some of Pink's "Punk" is bordering on glam rock. What's wrong with good old Johnnie Rotten?

Don't get too far ahead of yourself about how easy it is going to be on the skis. On winter climbs of both Hood and Rainier I have at times skinned up and carried the skis down due to a breakable crust that I could not handle with a pack on. Sometimes you get easy skiing, but sometimes not.

For gear, I'd recommend adding a shovel to your list and maybe learning a little about snowcaves before you go.

The Gib Ledge route is the standard winter route for good reason. It is the shortest route to the summit from Camp Muir and the steep parts are all south facing so generally stable anytime there has not been a big snow or wind event for, say, a week or more. It is not without hazard, though: particularly when the sun comes out the traverse ledges are frequently bombarded with rockfall. There is also some steep and exposed terrain there, and an experienced soloist fell off the traverse a couple of years ago. Your time spent in the chute leading to the top of Gib Rock at the end of the traverse is relatively short, but it is a somewhat exposed place and some have reported worrying about ice falling from above. There is relatively little glacier travel on the route but above Gib Rock there is certainly some potential to fall in some big slots that will be mostly if not almost entirely filled in or bridged. Once you leave the top of Gib Rock, you can dash up to the summit if you are feeling good and not postholing, minimizing the amount of time spent on featureless terrain on the upper mountain.

You might be one who would appreciate this:

Nice quip, but who is more of a pussy: the protestor who in some cases may be willing to go to jail for what they believe or the chicken hawk who calls for war with absolutely no prospect of being called to serve and in some cases doesn't even want to pay taxes to support that war?

Jay, your arguments are absurd. Of course we consider context, message, and history when evaluating the “morality” of a given demonstration. As a society, we try to maintain laws that equally constrict public conduct regardless of content, but the legality of a given activity is only one component of the equation when we attempt to evaluate the morality of it. You are probably the only one here who would suggest that we have to favor a Klu Klux Klan march through a black neighborhood in Jena Louisiana that includes planting burning crosses if we say it was OK for a couple of college kids to put garbage cans in the street during an anti-war demonstration in Olympia. That IS what you're saying, isn't it?

I thought he liked hobbits? Anyway, happy trails, Mike. Say hello to Gordon Hinckley.

I'm wondering how THIS story will play out in the elections: BAGHDAD -- Iraq's government, seeking protection against foreign threats and internal coups, will offer the U.S. a long-term troop presence in Iraq in return for U.S. security guarantees as part of a strategic partnership, two Iraqi officials said Monday...

I have a pair of Bose 4.2's and a sub woofer from Speakerlab if somebody is interested. Its not great stuff, but it can handle some volume and is better than a lot of stuff you'll bring home from Best Buy.

You can do an OK job just cutting with a sharp knife and using a plumbers' torch to cook the ends, and then squeezing or rolling or otherwise tapering the cut ends as they cool. The torch has a lot more penetrating power than a simple Bic lighter.

We're rocking again tonight. Hate all you want, but I kinda like 'em.

Read again, Jay: "I've already acknowledged that I don't know the specifics of who did what as in their tactics, that some of what they did was misguided at best, and in case it makes you feel any better I'll even point out that all along I've agreed that some of them should probably have been arrested and charged." You call this conceding that private citizens should impose their will upon the rest of society? Apart from that, do you really feel that this handful of protestors HAS actually imposed their will upon "the rest of society?" I get what I think is your point, and I largely conceded it several posts ago (to the extent that this activity represented mayhem, destruction of property, threat to personal safety etc. and yes - even to the extent that it was just plain illegal - it should be not only discouraged but punished). But really: get a grip. This was a clumsy demonstration, addressing the larger issues in a manner that (like you) I would not have chosen, but these folks made or tried to make a bit of a point about how MOST OF AMERICA IS AGAINST THIS WAR and nobody but a couple of unnamed garbage cans was harmed in the process. Donate some money to the Unnamed Garbage Can Relief Fund if you feel so bad about it.

Give it up, Jay. I've already acknowledged that I don't know the specifics of who did what as in their tactics, that some of what they did was misguided at best, and in case it makes you feel any better I'll even point out that all along I've agreed that some of them should probably have been arrested and charged. Really, this is getting pathetic. If a group of neo-nazi college students blocked one or two vehicals full of goods from a massive airlift of litterally thousands of boat and plane loads of supplies to Africa, and if the police broke up their little party and arrested a couple of them, I sure as hell wouldn't be whining about the disintegration into mob rule. You're right, though: I'll heap more praise on the anti-war demonstrators than the neo-nazi's every time. Won't you?

I'm still wondering: will I notice a big difference if I try a fancier CD player? The one we now have is about ten years old and wasn't all that expensive at the outset.

Yup. He likes 'em. I keep them right next to my climbing ropes he uses for a litter box.

as to Bose: I don't pretend to know a lot about stereo's or sound, but I've read some of that crap on the web and it looke to me like it is in style to dislike all of their products just because it is cool. These 901's are pretty good, though, and it seems to me they are much more non-directional than other options without drilling your house full of holes and running cord all over the place for surround sound. Porter: your pictures remind me of these babies I'm storing for somebody at present: They sound really great, but to best appreciate them you have to orient them just right and then sit in just the best spot.

Yup, I don't hear so good. But what I'm hearing in the living room sounds pretty good to me and the speakers were not very expensive. Klipsch would have been twice as much and we'd have the twin towers next to our sofa instead of something about the scale of a small end table. And yes, the old vinyl has lost much of its umph, but on our system some of those records that aren't worn out sound a hell of a lot more dynamic than the cd's. Is it maybe important to look for a fancy cd player, too? (By the way, I bought the speakers from a guy living on the waterfront in Skagit County, a guy who told a bunch of disgusting stories.)

I recently upgraded speakers in our living room to a pair of Bose 901's, and today I hooked up my buddy's Oracle turntable. Some of the old vinyl really comes alive with good gear - in a way I haven't heard CD's replicate. Anybody wanna buy my old Thorens table?

Take a pill, Jay. It wasn't exactly the Watts riots. Where in my post did you see me justifying mob action or taking the law into one's own hands?

Knight, my point about your engaging in masturbation here on cc.com is that your engagement in this "public debate" is pretty likely to accomplish nothing more than to please yourself. What those kids did actually mattered in a context broader than their immediate self-gratification (whether you view it positively or negatively). To the extent you suggest the demonstrators did nothing but masturbate yet your typing a critique of them on cc.com is "good citizenship," I would argue it is precisely the other way around. What you and I are able to trade back and forth over the computer screen doesn't really matter much to anybody else. I'm still happy to spende my time this way, though, and once in a while somebody here makes a good point or I come away from the discussion with a new idea. But we really aren't accomplishing anything with these discussions on cc.com. This site has plenty of impact on what happens in climbing, but not much impact on the war.

The guy in the green is a talented dancer.

Jay: last I heard, the polls are pretty clear that many if not most Americans now think an ongoing occupation in Iraq is not in our best interest yet I think it is pretty clear that our elected representatives are not really going to stick their necks out to take a hard stand against it (current electoral politics aside). I agree with your argument to an extent: just as these people did, the anti-abortionists or those opposeed to segregation DID have a right to demonstrate in the streets. Do you remember the Skokie case from your history classes? You have a right to disagree with what these folks did, and GMKnight can complain about the throwing of garbage cans or you and I can argue over whether the right to life crowd is moral or not. At the end of the day, however, you and I are simply blowing smoke here on cc.com because we find it amusing or interesting to do so. Overall, I say the Olympia protestors exercised a right that I for one am glad they have. Could they have been more effective in conveying their message? Probably. And would I advocate "taking to the streets" every time someone disagrees with another groups political position or doesn't like a law? No. But in my opinion those folks can and should be proud that those shipments are not going to go through Olympia - at least for now.

C'mon Feck. You know that Elvis hasn't been spotted on cc.com. If you don't want to visit the Bethlehem of pubclub, you can be one of the tin soldiers in our cc.com production of the Nutcracker. Get the spirit!