pope

Did you see that trendy little hat Jean Enerson was wearing this eve? Well, I've got a friend who's supposed to bring me one of them when she returns! Place your bids.

quote: Originally posted by bellemontagne: Here we are in Eugene, Oregon awaiting the day for the snow to melt so we can climb at Flagstone again. Well until then, are any Eugene area climbers interested in a pub club??? If you are, post a response, and I will set somethin up. bellemontagne [ 02-20-2002: Message edited by: bellemontagne ] Eugene: the little drinking town with a climbing problem.

quote: Originally posted by klar404: Capin' is actually sayin' a truth (as I see it) hidden deep within the spray! More Bolts = More people. My only question is where the hell are all these people taking shits? More bolts = More people. More shit + more 206ers + pissed off locals = no climbing. The volume of shit produced can be more a function of climbers' diets than the number of climbers per se. In my brief flirtation with sport climbing, I adopted a trendy diet based on carrot juice, egg whites and cup after cup of supplementary dietary fiber. Also, each day for lunch I prepared a little spinach salad, which I garnished with hemp sprouts, chick-peas, baked tofu cubes and sesame butter. I remember shitting more mass than I ate, and I remember shitting more than I peed.

quote: Originally posted by Charlie: I just got back from sport climbing at vantage and i am wearing a pair of tights. How funny. I was just about to call you to ask, "Charlie, what are you wearing?" Then I was going to ask, "Are you in bed?"

quote: Originally posted by Zenolith: yes, it is impressive isn't it! glad you were all amused. for someone like me who likes puns and those things that read the same forward and reverseward, it is a special day. for those who think it's meaningless in the grander scheme, touche, but then, so are you. Zenolith, I can appreciate such nonsense. I've got a couple of questions/jokes for you that follow this theme: 1. What's the difference between a seductress in church and a housewife in the tub? 2. What's the difference between a nymph with diarrhea and a spastic eating oysters? 3. What's the difference between Donna Top-Step and a clever trick? And on a different note, how do you keep a moron in suspense? The answer to these four questions will be posted tomorrow. [ 02-20-2002: Message edited by: pope ]

MattP and Mike, I'm sure you're right. Tell you what: you teach me to tele-ski, I'll teach you how to swing a side-dish! Lambone, no harm done. But if you want to stop by my pad on the way to Crystal, you've got to clean up the potty mouth. My wife has never heard a foul word come out of my mug, and I don't let Dwayner carry on with his usual locker-room talk around her.

Daryl, That some climbers see a crag in the same way that they see a ski area, as you point out, is probably pretty close to reality, I'm sorry to say. Ultimately, the bolting practices at a particular cliff should probably be controlled by social norms, as you point out. Having said that, I feel it is important to try to sway the sentiments of climbers toward a more natural approach. It is difficult to convince others that the common practice of bolting is unaesthetic without being emotional about it. I am absolutely at fault for occasionally making absurd associations between sport climbers and the sexually confused. Yet every time I attempt to restrain myself from making such comparisons, I get this black-&-white image in my head of a guy shaving in the bath.... Believe it or not, a young man posted this morning to say that he'd given the bolting issue some thought, and that ideas elaborated on this bulletin board had caused him to become critical of bolt placements next to cracks in Boulder Canyon. If my words had anything to do with changing that guy's perspective, then it's been worth all of the abuse I get around here. My comment that the actions of bolting advocates go beyond discussion should be interpreted literally: discussion is one thing, but when bolt advocates drill, or when bolt opponents chop, that is quite another thing.

Thank you, Peter. But you've got the wrong "pope". I've borrowed my name from Clement Pope, one of my favorite characters in THE EIGER SANCTION. I ain't never exorcixed no demon out of an Italian woman (I've been known to put a demon in an Italian woman, however).

Daryl, due to both boredom and conviction, I've read and contributed to many of the bolting threads on this board. Many of the discussions focus on vague philosophies which support why advocates and opponents of bolting line up on the sides they do. Other discussions have been more situationally specific, with an attempt to reach common ground. Bolting opponents have been heard to say, "Not every bolt is bad. When placed on the lead in an area where less destructive anchors are not available, a bolt may be appropriate." Bolting opponents have been heard to say, "When superb belay anchors are not available, a fixed belay consisting of at least two 3/8" or 1/2" bolts are not only acceptable, they should be required." On the other hand, advocates of bolting have been heard to say, "Bolting next to a reasonable crack is really lame." The details of these discussions are often more civil than you seem to have noticed. Now, when you state that there is more common ground to be found than we might realize, I completely agree. Where I disagree with you is on who should wear the "asshole" emblem. Dwayner and Pope are quite vocal about how we feel about bolts, but neither of us has ever chopped a bolt. If you find bitching about bolts to be really annoying, then try standing on our side of the fence and imagine how many times more insulting it must be to witness the permanent molestation of mountaineering challenge and alpine beauty. You see, we're whining about it, but what bolting advocates are doing goes beyond discussion: we view what they are doing as public property damage. And BTW, I think I speak for Dwayner when I say that we have stated our case quite articulately. But feel free to offer your brilliant interpretation of the issues. We're waiting. Also, regarding your associate, the one with whom you agree when he states that bolting opponents on this site are assholes: you make reference to the idea that he somehow surveyed climbers prior to bolting a project. I may be speculating, but if your associate is one of the DDD bolters, I might add that at least two climbers strongly discouraged the DDD bolting prior to the act, when they were personally contacted by one of the guys who bolted it. And given the nearly unanimous disapproval voiced on the bulletin board subsequent to the retro-bolting of DDD, I think it's fair to say that the guys who bolted it could have put out a better survey, a survey that would sample a broader spectrum of climbers. This site would have been a place to start, but one of the guys who did it does not see the potential and validity in this site that you and I see, and so he elected not to give notice.

quote: Originally posted by Lambone: Your such a fuckin hypocrite pope. All you do is talk shit on this site about how bad sport climbers and the bolts they use are, yet you support environmentaly unfriendly institutions such as ski areas... What makes a bolt bad, and a ski lift good? Which one causes more damage? Not to mention the resources a ski area eats up, ie. energy, water, habitat, etc... Not that I don't enjoy skiing on the lifts, cause I do...shit I've even got a seasons pass. But pope's double standard sucks my ass. Support it? I suppose I've purchased a few lift tickets. Lift skiing is a perverted synthesis of mountain beauty with amusement-park elements. It's an activity I can enjoy with people who aren't into the traditional, hardy challenges of mountain climbing. Do I support expansion of lift skiing to new areas of the Cascades? Not really. Do I want mountain climbing to resemble area skiing (with espresso stands, heated gondolas and pizzerias)? HELL NO! But I get the impression that you might think such additions would improve on crag climbing at Index; otherwise, why attack me for suggesting that rock climbing should be a little more special and natural than lift-skiing? I pick my battles, and I certainly don't want to tell lift-skiing enthusiasts how to live their lives. But I see a big difference: mountain climbing is about wilderness, and it's about going up. Therefore, when mountain climbing, one should start at the bottom and do their best to leave only footprints. This thread has become such a pain in the ass. What started out as a couple of wisecracks turns into a bunch of whining. WTF? Lambone, Dwayner and I were just discussing how we thought you'd turned the corner, how you'd put one foot onto the bridge to civility and manhood. I personally invited you into my home, next time you and your lovely bride are on your way to ski at Crystal....and I get this? Lighten up. Have a laugh. If you're not careful, you're going to wind up with irritable bowel syndrome.

quote: Originally posted by max: pope: yeah I was thinking about this last night and was trying to employ the "try to convince yourself into agreement before forming a refutation" trick and realized how appropriate this topic is. Just sunday I climbed a super fun face climb in Boulder Canyon. It was steep with positive holds in most places, a few dicy sections that required some interesting body positions. Bolted. And after having climbed the route, I was a little disappointed that it was bolted since there were plenty of #1-#4 TCU cracks. The bolts were purely for convenience. So I have to moderate what I said above. Your (plural) right; there are quite a few climbs out there that are and should not be bolted. And that's too bad. ] Max, you have provided an example of why I have more faith in your generation than I do my own. I don't find fault in young climbers who clip bolts when so many of them don't know any different. The climbers who disgust me are the guys who are my age and older who continue to litter our cliffs even when they know a better way. You, my friend, have demonstrated the ability to divorce yourself from the contrived "generation-gap" emotions and examine the issue from a time/age-independent perspective. Max, a big "high-five" to you, from your alpine buddies Pope and Dwayner. You have the opportunity to propel climbing in your generation forward, to improve on what can only be described as the "dark ages" of narcissism and self-absorption we've witnessed in the last two decades. Back to the future!

Yes, the "real" ski season goes on for months in the high mountains, and if you are hardy enough to skin-up all day to get in one run, you might not want to put the boards away just yet. Are you going to talk your ski bunny into this kind of adventure? If so, then ignore Pope and Dwayner's advice. Area-skiing is an enormous amount of fun, Matt. In fact, I went area-skiing on my honeymoon and not once did I become sexually confused in the way that I did after seeing the Verve add.

With temperatures climbing back into the 50's and with March just around the corner, I'm reminded of a little ritual I used to go through every year about this time: after area-skiing with a girl all winter, I knew it was about time to quit fooling around and concentrate on mountaineering excellence for the coming season. In short, it was time to say to the ski bunny, "Jumbo go away!" Pope 'n Dwayner recognize that this is a difficult time in a boy's life, and so in the interest of facilitating an incisive termination to your current relationship, we wish to offer some situationally specific ideas on how to release the ski bunny. First approach: tell the truth! "Your curvy body still inspires me, but the rack of my dreams has been hanging in my closet all winter." Second approach: try the gay thing! "My brief flirtation with sport climbing has left me sexually confused. Ever since I saw Christian Griffith shaving in that Verve add, women don't interest me." Third approach: try the gay thing a different way! "My climbing partner isn't just my climbing partner. He's my partner." Fourth approach: you're concentrating on your new job! "I'm pursuing a demanding career as a cake model at the Erotic Bakery." Fifth approach: movin' on up! "My old girlfriend wants me back and she's moved up to a double-wide." Sixth approach: she's put on weight! "Girl, I've outgrown this relationship...and you've outgrown that ski suit!" Seventh approach: she's getting old! "Honey, I can't afford you anymore because next ski season I'll have to buy you an adult lift ticket." There you have it. Gentlemen, you have no excuses this spring. There should be no distractions. Now, Dwayner and I, in our strive to be gender-inclusive, will offer this to all the ladies who need to dump their ski partners before spring climbing season: "My needs are not being met in this relationship. I'm going to call Dwayner or Pope" (take your pick).

quote: Originally posted by allison: Um, hey, I hate to be all semantic here, but calling one another anything you want unless it is a derogatory term for the sweet female pie, in other words, calling someone a 'pussy' is not acceptable. Peeing in one another's butts, well I say have at it, if that's the insult that flies your kite, but, um, well, 'pussy' is sort of, well, not a thing that is bad. And I really hate to see it used that way, even in jest. It's disrespectful in a way that is not funny. Allison! Congratulations: your foul language made me blush. Where do you find the audacity to talk like that in public....have you been boozin'? "Pussy" is a word guys use to describe one who behaves like a coward....let's say, a guy who drills a line of bolts next to a perfectly good crack. Yeah, that guy is a pussy. Generally, the term is used in this context without reference to genitalia, although if you wish conjure up such images, be my guest. However, I believe the use of "pussy" that appears in this thread derives from the verb "pussyfoot", which means to tread warily, or to refrain from committing oneself....which is exactly what occurs when "lead" bolts are drilled by one who is not leading. "Pee in each other's butt"? I still can't believe my ears. Remind me to never let my daughter log on to this site. Max: make it an age issue if you wish. Ignore sound advice for whatever reason you want. Dwayner didn't mean to insult anybody when he stated that the clean climbing ethic seems forgotten. Rap bolting is a legacy that a number of guys who are my age have left for you. Today's young climbers didn't invent it, although many of them embrace it. Many of them don't know any different. When Dwayner and Pope condemn the practice, they are not condemning you, nor are they condemning your contemporaries. We are simply saying that the best interest of all people is served when we treat the rocks as a limited, natural resource. Where one guy approves of bolts, the next guy approves of carving buckets. Where does it stop? Why should anybody have the right to add unsightly hardware, hardware that permanently degrades the wilderness feel of a cliff? And if it is occasionally justified, shouldn't it be only in very special circumstances? Like Dwayner says, a bolt should be a last resort, not a first resort.

quote: Originally posted by Dru: A very attractive woman goes up to the bar in a quiet rural pub. She gestures alluringly to the bartender, who comes over immediately. When he arrives, she seductively signals that he should bring his face closer to hers. When he does so, she begins to gently caress his full beard. "Are you the manager?", she asks, softly stroking his face with both hands? "Actually, no," the man replies. "Can you get him for me? I need to speak to him," she says, running her hands beyond his beard and into his hair. "I'm afraid I can't," breathes the bartender. "Is there anything I can do?" "Yes, there is. I need you to give him a message," she continues, slyly popping a couple of her fingers into his mouth and allowing him to suck them gently. "What should I tell him?" the bartender manages to say. "Tell him," she whispers, "there is no toilet paper or hand soap in the ladies room. " High five, Dru! Funniest damn thing on here in weeks!

No construct of words have I yet read that so thoroughly and poetically expresses my range of emotions and convictions on this subject! We'll arrange a contract. I need to replace my old standby. ----------------------------------------------- Caution: my schlanger is even larger than it appears in your side mirror.

quote: Originally posted by JayB: No matter how hard you climb,if you clip bolts then you are a pussy and I'm a better, purer climber than you are, bow before me JayB, you have a beautiful way with words! May I borrow this for my signature? Seriously, though, I'm only sticking up for Dwayner so that he'll be a sport and continue to shave his legs and wear that wig on those 24-hour Joshua Tree road trips.

Anybody met Allison, or is that just Cavey trying to make Trask even hornier than he already is?

quote: Originally posted by jblakley: Not only that but a #1 Rose has nowhere near the range of extension as most #1 Cams. But a rose will get you going in more cracks than a #1 cam, don't cha know.

quote: Originally posted by Charlie: People had their shirts off (males only, fortunately) I hope this weather keeps up. Now I know why you find that place so inviting!

quote: Originally posted by chucK: This site is working well for picking up partners. I think I'm 2 for 3 now. You guys should try it out. I thought you were having better luck over in the Arboretum!

quote: Originally posted by Dave Schuldt: Saw Coach today- he is really fat. Talking shit about how we never really landed on the moon and other conspiricies. But you've got to admit that the guy is both articulate and entertaining. You might want to spend more time around him.

quote: Originally posted by JayB: [qb] What I meant was I think it is lame to talk shit about something which you (and I, and all but a few incredibly gifted folks) are manifestly incapable of doing - in this case bouldering at the V10+ level and sport climbing at the 5.13 plus level. One question, my friend: at what point would you state that somebody is "capable" of climbing 5.13 or B2 or whatever? It seems to me, Dwayner is criticizing climbers who comrpomise style in the name of obsessing over something that is obviously too hard for them. I think he'd criticize a "trad" climber who spent all day rehearsing the moves on a 5.9 crack, if it were obviously over the tradster's head. That many sport climbers operate in this mode (bursts of intense free climbing between aid moves on bolts, with the hope of achieving a "red point"), makes the entire pursuit seem ridiculous. That they spray the rock with bolts makes them even more deserving of ridicule. There's a difference between climbing difficult grades and pretending to climb difficult grades. For me, it's easier to respect somebody who climbs difficult routes without all the artifice, whether they excel at steep face, slabs, cracks, ice or whatever. Let's not kid ourselves: Dwayner isn't criticizing the conquest of difficult rock faces (be they on the Capitan or on a boulder); rather, he's critizing poor style. There are routes at the very top free-climbing grades being established on the lead in the Alps, with big run-outs between bolts drilled from hook "stances", by "sport climbers" like the Hubers. Nobody, including Dwayner, is criticizing those guys. It's funny that when 5.13b was being rap-drilled in this country, proponents argued that establishing such grades on the lead was barely possible and hardly practical. Look what's going on in the Alps these days! So, with all respect, I think Dwayner makes a valid point of ridiculing common sport-climbing practices. That he isn't capable of 5.13 is a fair statement, but then most of the guys spending four weeks to redpoint 5.13 aren't really capable either.

quote: Originally posted by specialed: Ubiqitous head band. Sweatshirt with arms and neck cut off. knee socks. Looks like John Long. All around 80's style. Let's face it: the guy is a genius! I've climbed with the guy, and the rumors that he doesn't know where Index is just aren't true. He'll talk your ear off, but I think he's a genuinely nice guy, and very entertaining (if you're driving back from Leavenworth, you won't need a radio in the car). [ 02-15-2002: Message edited by: pope ]

quote: Originally posted by AlpineK: Living in Boulder sure made me sick of bikers. Herds of em out on two lane roads riding two abreast in their skin tight, wild lycra tights. And when I would try and pass them in my work truck they would all flip me off. It's supposed to work the other way around! I always save an old banana peel just for such occasions.