pope

Why Tuesday...I assume it's still a Tuesday thing. Ain't no way I can make it. Maybe a rotation on DOTW (that's "Day Of The Week" for the less than hip lurkers out there) would help out those of us who would like to attend, IMO (that's "In My Opinion" for the slower folks). Hey, I've got a new crypto-cyber-acro word you all can try: IMAHOMO.....that's "I Might Actually Have One More Option". Let's try: Hey, you've suggested some great watering holes, but IMAHOMO: Jack's Tavern!

Peter, I've been out there to climb, to clip bolts and get a pump. It's simultaneously fun and depressing...but where are you going to go when Leavenworth is drenched? I don't know when I'm going to have time soon, but I'm living in Ellensburg again this summer, so I'd be happy to go out there (although it seems like time could be better spent doing real climbing). Want to go? First you have to convince me that you like girls. Some of your teases in this thread begin to worry me...although whatever you're into privately, I mean, hey, that's cool. I don't want to know, but you seem like a good guy and everything. I'm a liberal dude. There's room for everybody. Pope.

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: Sometimes the gulf between our fantasy and our mundane existence is simply too far.... I am glad I left out the part about the goodbye kiss tho! PP Reality of fantasy? Either way, you'd be kissing nothing but my ass.

quote: On the drive home we recount the day’s adventures, the envious look of other climbers, the lustful stares of the young girls. Dropping my partner off at his house he asks if we are going back next week and I reply, “Sure Pope. Another Vantage weekend it is!” On the drive home I can hardly wait for the weekend to arrive.[/QB] Peter, this could be arranged. My guide's fee is a bargain at $250 per diem. You would not be allowed to refer to me as your "partner", although you could call me your "climbing partner".

Do a search under "it all starts with a doob", or just search under "chuggin'"!

Come on RURP, out with it. We all want the URL to Julie Andrews' photo! URL! URL! URL!URL!URL!URL! URL! URL! URL!URL!URL!URL! URL! URL! URL!URL!URL!URL! URL! URL! URL!URL!URL!URL........

I want to nominate my long-time alpine buddy Dwayner for this week's honoree. He's not only an entertaining guy with a wealth of experience to share, but he's the kind of guy who will take care of ya when things ain't going so hot....inspite of the fact that he's an internationally recognized scholar/explorer with an extremely busy schedule. I first gained a full appreciation of his character when a girl I was running around with dropped me like the two-foot put. I was taking the development kind of hard (not seeing her meant not seeing her incredibly hot mother!) Anyway, Dwayner invited me over for beer and hot-tubbin' with some of his scholarly friends; he assured me that talking about exploration and adventure with his cronies would take my mind off of things. As soon as Dwayner and I cracked the first beers, he informed me that his buddies couldn't make it...it was just going to be the two of us. Not ten minutes after his announcement, the door burst open and two fine young hotties clad in two-piece swim suits jumped in the tub....Now that took my mind off of things (I had to concentrate on not allowing an uncharacteristically buoyant limb to surface). Yup, Dwayner will take care of you. And he taught me some great gags, like the old coffee creamer exploding to simulate a ruptured glaucomous eye. And so it is with great pride that I nominate him for this week's Alpine Buddy.

quote: Originally posted by nolanr: But I haven't contributed my alloted 2.5 kids to the world population problem yet. Neither have I....so far as I know.

quote: Originally posted by nolanr: I agree, the biggest problem is too damn many people No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.

I did the route with a party of three, and if I remember correctly, our third had to do a shoulder-stand move to get down to our belay. The route is probably safer to lead! BTW, is that belay slot still full with foul fowl turds?

HEY COLIN! YES YOU, COLIN! I was snoopin' around on "Who's On-Line" and saw you reading this crap. Listen, young man, before you pack up your car, smash your piggy bank and drive to Leavenworth, you must know that this exotic dance club in Leavenworth is purely fictional! [ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: pope ]

Here's an inspirational story about a friend of mine who went through an ugly divorce and was left to take care of two children. While I might not have sympathy for everybody who experiences a divorce, my friend is genuinely nice/moral person, and I think it's fair to say she and her children were victims of a dishonest man. Anyway, she showed an interest in climbing Mt.Rainier and so I invited her to join a team of assorted novices I intended to lead up the mountain. Although she didn't summit with our group, I gave her a lot of credit for being tough and stepping out of her routine to try something so new and challenging. I just ran into her at lunch today..she waits tables at a local restaurant. I could tell the minute I saw her that she was extremely happy about something, and she informed me that she had climbed Rainier this summer, fulfilling one of her life goals. It was obvious to me that this experience had empowered her, made her feel strong and in control. As soon as she left our table, some of my co-works began to question her judgement, suggesting that no middle-age woman with children should be so selfish as to take such risks, that she should be content to center her life around her children. It really pissed me off....it's not as though she was climbing K2 or something, and sure, there is some risk involved, but to me, the impact this experience had on her justifies any smallish risks she might have assumed. I'm not intending to start a debate about climbing/kids/being responsible and all of that shit....I just wanted to share my friend's personal triumph wid y'all.

Didn't one of the Kennedy's or Sonny Bono die in a paintball/ski accident?

EMR's gonna getcha boy! Back away from the monitor and put down that six-pack!

Hey Special Ed, It's not lack of confidence in my skill, ability and judgement that keep me off of water ice these days. It is the unpredictable nature of the medium and a couple of bad experiences. Having said that, I used to think climbing ice was funner/better than climbing rock, and if your head is into it, have a good time and be safe.

No problem. We can even treat them with a stain-resistant teflon spray. Just a bit of advice: no matter how charming you are, and no matter how impressed she is with your new floral-print bouldering pad, if you're stupid enough to ask her to carry it around for you, she's going to think you're a loser.

Eleven years ago on New Year's Day, I watched Narada Falls collapse just about an hour after we had climbed it. I was at the overlook across the canyon when I heard a "pop". I looked over at the falls and noticed a horizontal crack at about 2/3-height. Then the whole shit-house came down, with Volkswagen-sized blocks and icy bursts of water creating a thunderous cacophony. The resulting pile of ice rubble reached a height of about ten feet, centered at the exact spot where we'd set our belay. It had been in the upper teens for nearly two weeks leading up to that day, which was overcast and about 32 degrees. I was never comfortable climbing water ice after that episode. When you see such a sight, you begin to understand why Big Lou says he wants to die an old man, in bed in front of the television. [ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: pope ]

A while back I was pokin’ fun at those bouldering pads we see with increasing regularity, when CC.com member “Freak” informed me that he considered his pad to be not only a bouldering safety net, but also a “portable fornication facilitator” or some such thing. This started me to thinking that with the currrent popularity of bouldering (as an important mountaineering pursuit all its own), I certainly have seen more females out and about. Let’s face it, when many of us started, there were very few gals willing to put up with the stinky sleeping bags, the effects of wind and sun on the complexion, the foul-mouthed jerks who are attracted to this sport, the bugs and critters, etc. The minimal equipment involved in bouldering, together with its obvious fun-factor, is probably responsible for opening up the sport to more girls. With the potential of meeting more ladies in the climbing circle, and with Freak’s innovative application of the bouldering pad, I’ve got an idea for a new product that is sure to make bouldering even more attractive to the ladies. I personally have no use for such gimmicks, as I’m a married man, and even when I was on the prowl, girls were just a distraction from pursuing mountaineering excellence. Anyway, I’m considering producing and marketing floral-print and pastel bouldering-pad slip-covers. Perfumed models would be available, and they’d be completely washable so that evidence of their many applications could easily be removed. I’m planning to have a velcro or draw-string fastening system so that you could easily remove the slip-cover when not climbing with girls. A prototype has been tested with excellent results: the slip-cover did not interfere with the pad’s ability to absorb the energy of falling bodies. Furthermore, and most importantly, the girls were more likely to lie around on the pad for long periods of time after each fall! Hotcha! [ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: pope ]

Matt writes:“Some people say they only bolt when leading and leave big runouts when they can because the want to preserve the “adventure” or the “legitimacy” of a climb. I think that’s bull shit. It’s selfish to alter the rock for yourself without keeping in mind the people who will inevitably follow. It's selfish because there will inevitably be more people who will enjoy a well protected climb than a Rated R/X death climb.” I generally agree with everything you say, Matt, and I appreciate your well-formulated request that climbers choosing to bolt do so thoughtfully. I also agree that in some situations, bolts should be placed in such a way that access is extended to a wider spectrum of climbers. For example, imagine a long route on pristine granite, following classic weaknesses (ramps, corners, chimneys, cracks), which has 40 feet of blank rock in the middle, and suppose that this blanks traverse can be free climbed with only moderate difficulty, in character with the rest of the route. Now suppose your mythical 5.12 climber decides to run it out through this section. On the one hand, I’m not sure this guy is thinking “Wow, look at me, I’m running it out on 5.8! Can’t wait to spray about this one. What a trophy!” If he chooses to run it out, he’s probably thinking to himself that the route has required very little fixed protection. Why fuck it up with ugly engineering now? On the other hand, he is in a way denying access to “average” climbers by not “adequately” bolting the pitch. Of course, if he leaves the pitch “run-out”, average climbers could be inspired to become better climbers, so that the route is within their abilities. Would that be a crime? Also, hypothetically consider a short pitch at Vantage, or some other place where routes are easily top-roped. Now our 5.12 climber might be thinking, upon spying a new line, that he should just leave it alone, or he might have the urge to bolt it on the lead, as an example of the way mountaineering really should be done, or perhaps just to test his own lead-climbing abilities (the kind of leading he might very well be required to do on a new route on a big mountain wall). True, he’s going to permanently alter the rock if he drills at all, and so perhaps he should take into consideration the abilities of those to follow. On the other hand, he’s got his own belief system to deal with (that is, his choice to drill might have nothing to do with ego or trophies). Furthermore, in this hypothetical situation, climbers who won’t take the risk to climb it the way he (or she) has equipped it, may always choose to top-rope it. Finally, he’s thinking, if he chooses to establish it as a top-rope problem, given the nature of climbs/climbers at that cliff (like Vantage, for example), then it’s unlikely that climbers are going to respect his choice. Some A-hole is just going to rap bolt it anyway. So, he bolts it on the lead, and the result is only leadable by a select number of climbers who are capable. What’s the problem?

This has nothing to do with climbing.....well, I suppose I'm a climber, and it's an episode from my experiences. Last summer, after depriving myself of adequate sleep for several nights, I walked over to lecture one morning after a visit to the coffee bar. I usually entered the building from the main/west entrance, but this day I entered the lecture hall by the back/east entrance. After entering, I immediately recognized that I was in the hall where the first-floor restrooms are found. Having just patronized the coffee bar, I felt the urge to tap a kidney, and I entered the first of the two restrooms (the men's room, as I recalled, was the first door you would come to). The doors were propped open for ventilation since the custodian had just cleaned the floor, and so I didn't see any door signs that might have prevented what happened next. I remember the custodian looking at me kind of funny as I walked in, but I didn't think anything of it. I kicked out the door stop, closed the door, and entered the first stall. Soon I heard a lady say, "Oh, good morning Professor So-and-So." Then the door opened and I heard the unmistakable sound of high heels noisily clacking across the tile floor. Then the door of the stall next to mine opened, then shut, and I saw the shoes, and I smelled the perfume, and then the sound of ....was it woman or a horse pissing in that stall? I was horrified. But, she departed, and I made my move for the door. Fortunately, nobody saw me exit. That event woke me up the way a cup of Java never could!

North of Puyallup where I was raised, there is an impressive boulder, about the size of the popular boulder below Yellow Jacket Tower in Leavenworth, only shorter so that you don't need to top-rope anything. When I was a kid, we scrubbed about 15 routes on this thing (up to 5.11 probably), and it had two long traverses. The boulder sits on private land and the owners are friends of my parents. Out of respect for their wishes, I'm not going to disclose its location. Somebody with a little library research ability could figure it out. Why bring this up then? It just makes me curious about how many other erratics are secretly lurking around the Puget Sound area, hiding in the woods near densely popualted neighborhoods. Also, it is my fantasy to be in the position to purchase the property on which this boulder sits, should it ever come up for sale. And when/if this happens, we're going to have to have a big ol' kegger/wire-brush party out there. I'm certain the old routes have been reclaimed by moss by now.

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: Pope – By the way months ago I suggested that one thing that can be done to help reduce sport bolting was to encourage TRS as an valid means of FA.It would surely discourage the addition of bolts at places like the Fun Forest where bolts were added to existing TRs. . I think this is an excellent solution in many cases, although certainly not every route can easily be top-roped. I was not aware of the developments at the Fun Forest. Shit.

Peter, I completely agree, once again. In fact, every time I've failed on a difficult sport climb I've come to the immediate realization that I'm really stupid. But seriously, do you think there is an enormous difference betweem the mental challenges of leading (with the draw in place) vs. top-roping a typical sport climb?

On the subject of retro-bolting, ever hear this one before? "Dude, like that route was doomed to obscurity, man. Nobody was getting on it, it was getting really dirty. So, we rescued it, revived it man. Now that it's got all these bolts, everybody's sending it. Yeah, we did the world a big favor." Or how about, "Whoever bolted that slab did a crappy job. It was so run out, somebody was going to get hurt. We tamed it down. Again, we did the world a favor." Let's see, I guess our altruists assume the people for whom these benevolent deeds were performed weren't smart enough to recognize and avoid a dangerous climb. Maybe we should take the same approach to mountaineering routes and ski descents. Come to think of it, not many folks descending Liberty Ridge on boards these days...maybe we need to get a D-8 Cat up there and change the grade a little. Not a lot of folks climbing that obscure A4 pitch up on the Town Wall, and besides, it's dangerous. Maybe we should drill a bolt trail and "rescue" it from obscurity. Come to think of it, we could significantly increase traffic on the East Face of Monkey Face if we were to carve a lline of 5.7 buckets right up the middle. Hey, if I go do this, do I get to rename it?

Peter, I couldn't agree more. When you think about it, everything has a mental component...except maybe breathing and maintaining a pulse. Peter, do you think it is possible for closely-spaced bolts to insult your intelligence? As mentioned by Jay in his recent, illuminating contribution to this thread, an attempt to respect the established practices at a particular cliff might sort all of this out. He notes areas in Colorado where such an approach appears to function successfully. It makes an enormous amount of sense to me. What has put me over the top recently is seeing the retro-bolting of established top-ropes on road-side bluffs in Leavenworth, and also the DDD episode. With so many bolts to clip in the immediate area, what purpose do these dubious projects serve? Regarding what most sport climbers think about bolted slabs: I would guess that sport enthusiasts would think they're really boring. Friends don't let friends climb slabs. To the question of whether there can't be room for a few bolted routes at a traditional area: if it's so important to you, if you just can't live without another bolted route, then open your mind and try it on the lead. Why? First of all, nobody will bitch about it. Second, you'll feel very satisfied, you might even decide it's a lot of fun. Finally, and most importantly, you'll send a message to grid bolters, through your fine example, that bolts aren't supposed to be sprayed around on a whim, that judgement and restraint should be practiced.