Bronco

Mike: Not my shoes but Erik and his homey Jamie hauled me up the G-M Wednesday and I agree it was great. I had to rest on the last OW myself as nothing was working for me but the layback.

More advice for newbies when climbing with righteous mentors: Don't drop mentors gear and if you do, replace it with your own. Be careful you don't kick any rocks off the belay ledge if you do yell "ROCK"! Don't stand on the end of the rap rope while your pard is throwing it off.

Good topic Will. I just finished reading the book - Your Money or Your Life : Transforming Your Relationship With Money and Achieving Financial Independence -- by Joe Dominguez, Vicki Robin; Paperback Great info in it regarding cutting the consumerism we are subscribing to and suggestions on how to get more from your life. My $.02

Here is a suggestion for your consideration as a part of the local climbing community. We need guys like Retro, Will and Caveman in order to be "a self regulating body" and put some limitations on bolting or "the man" will do it for us. Just imagine getting a permit to place some bolts for a belay station. "ok mr. climber that will be 30 days for planning review, 30 for structural..."

I be down wit that!

Hikerwa: Sounds as if you have some reluctant folks who are hesitant to do their share of the work. A suggestion would be to "get after them" a little and let them know what's expected of a "partner". Newbies: As a fellow newbie I can confirm feeling like doing nothing is the safest thing to do to aviod looking like a moron. It is also a good way to appear lazy and uninterested to your partner especially if they don't know you from previous meetings. A few tips on how not to look like a client and piss off your more experienced partner: You should offer to drive, carry gear on the approach if you won't be leading, try have enough snacks and water for your "partner" and always bring TP. Be on time, know exactly where and when you are meeting and if you're not sure, ask. Afterwards, offer to buy lunch or dinner. Remember Bronco's climbing with mentors rule # 2: It is a privelidge to climb with someone willing to teach you how and definetly not a privelidge to climb with a newbie.

OK Mike, you will get through this, we need talk you down. How many pills did you take and what color were they? What is the signifiacance of your girlfriend being an Indian? Is she there with you? We need you to get away from the keyboard and any sharp objects!

BUSTED! http://www.heraldnet.com/Stories/01/7/13/14019802.cfm Too bad it was just a lady by herself who witnessed the crime instead of a Vanagon full of hippy climbers or 4x4 full of redneck bear poachers.

check out the article on Rock & Ice: http://www.rockandice.com/index.phtml?section=gear_show&content_id=149

What gives with no TRs on the PUB CLUB?

East- I dont know further than that, we will decide when we get there.

Going lightweight is not for everybody. If your freind is a novice, he may be looking for trouble unless his parnters have some experience. The reason I say this is the more experience you have out there, the better you are prepared to deal with not having extra dry pants or emergency food. I have used the old "if there is doubt then there is no doubt" philosiphy in packing with some success. If you hesitate while packing your leatherman wondering if you will really need it, then nope, it stays home. Leave the big first aid kit at home and just bring a roll of medical tape and bandana. Drilling holes in the handle of your boyscout hatchet is also preffered as well as beer in cans over bottles.

Skinny Dippin is funnest with a co-ed, my wife and I used to take the occaional dip in the mountains back in the good old days. Almost got busted one time, just as we were finishing putting our cloths back on, a group of about 20 hikers came around the point on Canyon Lake near Granite Falls. Trying to throw cloths on over cold wet skin is not fun. I was sitting next to Procter creek West of Mt. Index 2 summers ago having a post climb brew with a buddy on a hot day thinkin I might slide over and sit in the creek but, with LOTS of hikers walking around I hesitated. All of a sudden, this hoser walks up and loudly says "you arent going to freak when I shed my towel and jump in the creek are ya?" We shrugged and he drops the towel to reveal that it was the only garment he was wearing! He frolicks around spashing and hooting while we busted a gut laughing at him along with everybody else. I havent seen any nude hikers or climbers yet, but have heard you folks are out there. I must say, I fail to see the point in that activity, I gotta protect the family jewels.

Thanks Dru my mistake, I am not really a big Queen fan like you are apparantly.

I genereally get enough motivation knowing if I don't train hard enough and fail on a climb because of it, it will suck! I don't get a chance to climb often so it stings for a while if I wimp out on a climb. Another good motivator is to go running in a neigborhood where there are lots of dogs or trail running in a grizly area covered with bbq sauce.

Hey smb - some of us big white thighed guys like to run and running shorts seem to be the best option. You are just jealous anyway because of your puny chicken legs you girly mon. "Fat bottomed women make the Rockin' World go 'round" - Freddy Mercury

"if they outlaw spandex for fatties, then only fatty outlaws will have spandex"

It was a good idea for you to skip the High Preist if you were running short on time. They can get very long winded, especially on Sundays. yuk yuk!

Whopper, your comment is right on about the foster climber you picked up "quiet, unassuming, knowledgable climber". Sounds like what my guts were telling me about Judd. I think this is a really subjective topic (adopting unproven partners) and highly depends on the stiuation an on the experience level of your team. Kind of like soloing - you don't want to solo at your level of climbing w/pro. After thinking about it for a week, I would do things differently if it happened again. But, if you never climb with anyone new, it will probably take you longer to learn than if you do. (mama always said "if you always do what you did, you will always have what you had") Another climbing paradox.

Will: Kind of funny you thought I made him up. At times I wondered if I made him up. This was one of the first big climbs (by my standards) and the most committing climb I have led. So I realize my judgement was not completly sound. Kevlar: thanks for posting, I appreciate knowing I was not insane and Judd was not a figment of my fatigue. I don't believe anyone should criticize you. You made the right decision for your team given the circumstances. Judd was the one who decided to stay up there. One final note: As my partners and I left Judd behind at Muir, one of them asks me, "so where did you know Judd from?" They both thought I knew him from somewhere else and both thought it was insane that I allowed him to climb with us.

Erik: I agree it is frustrating when you e-mail someone to take them up on an offer say - oh - I don't know - maybe to take a newbie climbin' and they don't respond.

PP: It sounds as if you mean a confrontation?

The single push of Saturday was interesting in more ways than I expected. My 2 partners and me left my house around 8:00 pm Friday night left the Paradise Parking lot at 11:00 pm sharp. The night was perfect conditions for hiking in poly pro and a firm crust had formed by that time. The moon was bright enough for us to hike most of the time without headlamps. It was so bright; you could see Mt. Adams, St. Helens and the Tatoosh range peeking up through the cloud deck. Made good time to Muir (3.5 hours), spent an hour eating, hydrating with recovery drink and a little coffee, stashing hiking poles and putting on every stitch of clothing except for shell pants, it was freakin' cold! Crampon and rope up rolled out of Muir at 3:30 am. Surprisingly, everybody left Muir before we arrived at 2:30. Conditions were still perfect, cold and clear by the time we reached the top of the Disappointment Cleaver at 6:00am. We were still moving quickly, and had caught up to an RMI group who suddenly turned around. We had passed 3 parties descending because of High wind, which we didn't notice because of fatigue or maybe the maelstrom we encountered 3 weeks ago toughened us up! Everything was going according to plan; we even were back on schedule to summit at 8:00 am. 2 hours and 2000 feet to go. Then about 500' above the DC, I encountered Judd. Judd appeared to be about 55 or 60 years old. He was sitting by himself, just off the track all bundled up. I greeted him and then the wheels come off. Judd: "my rope team decided to descend but, I want to summit and so I let them go down with out me. Would you mind if I join your rope team? The last time I climbed Rainer, I went up this route and I am a very strong climber." I think of all of the nice guys who have taken me climbing despite having doubts and decide it is my turn to spread some good karma. Me: (taking notice of his well worn equipment and extremely laid back attitude) "Only if you will lead up this last 2000’,” I tell him we have been climbing since 11:00 the night before and maintaining a steady pace was critical. Judd: "great, lets go" (I hand him the extra coil I have been carrying, he ties in and off we go). "Oh, by the way, my style is slow and steady" he says. I am thinking great, that's our style too. I am planning our next break in an hour at 13,500 when Judd stops. We have only gone about 20 feet up the switchback so - Me: "hey, what's up?" Judd: "what?" Me: "what's wrong? Why are you stopping?" Judd: "this is how I climb, I told you slow and steady. Your partners look like they could use the break anyway" (I look back to two very angry, anxious climbers) Me: "lets go! Get a move on Judd!" Judd: "OK" he turns and climbs another 30' or 40'and stops. He says "Sorry, I just sat too long back there and need to take a quick break” I look back to see partner #1 throw himself down in the middle of the path and go to sleep. This only took him about 2 seconds to achieve REM (deep sleep). Me and partner #2 exchange a concerned look. Me: "hey, what the hell are you doing?" Partner #1: "if Judd is stopping I will take a nap" Me: "NO NO NO you can't stop and take a nap get your ass up we are going! JUDD get going!" Judd turns and we repeat the process 5 or 6 times. We have lost an hour and only made about 200'-300' gain. I am thinking, "maybe we could leave Judd here, he won't mind it is so obvious he is killing us and as long as we are moving, partner #1 seems fine. I can’t leave Judd here. It is too damn dangerous. I know, I will lead and we will stop no more until we summit. Me: "JUDD STOP, we are trading places." I am starting to notice things like his old fashioned tweed gators, 10pt crampons with no front points and leather straps, very old looking leather boots etc. Judd: "sorry if I am too slow, this is how I climb and you always have to climb as fast as the slowest climber on your team” He hands me his water bottle "I can't seem to get this open - can you try" i easily open it. I am thinking - how did this dude plan to get down the DC by himself? He has no rope; his harness consists of a rubber belt and a carabineer over his heavy coat. He can't even open his own water bottle, partner #1 is sleeping again and I am starting to have serious doubts about continuing. Partner # 3 (who is climbing very well) votes to go down because of partner #3 sleeping and possibly deciding not to get up. Me: "I am taking the lead from Judd and we will keep moving now. If we keep moving, he won’t have a chance to lay down” I tie into the front and notice the temp is still well below freezing with moderate gusts blowing spindrift around under clear skies. Conditions were perfect, no crevasse to navigate around, everybody else had either ascended out of site or turned around. "CLIMBING!" we get another 30' and I feel a tug on the line. Judd: "break time, just a quickie” I keep walking, forcing Judd to keep moving for another 20' until he remembers to use his ice axe to stop. "Ooh, I gotta take a beautiful picture" classic Judd. I am getting pissed now. Somehow, we repeat this process until about 10:15 am when we top out. Partner #2 flops down for a nap. Judd: "yah, we are awesome" he is greeted with empty stares. He says " hey, we will just sit here an hour or so and let my tummy relax, it feels icky, could you open my water bottle?" I want to open a jar of whoop ass at this point. It only took us about 4 hours to climb the last 2000' and I am getting worried about descending before the freezing level rises. Partner #1: sitting up all of a sudden and looking around "what? Where is my wife?" Me: "eh, do you know what day of the week it is?" Partner #1: "I was just talking to her, where did she go?" I realize the sleep deprivation must be really taking a toll on him. Me: "WE GO DOWN, NOW!" Judd: "well just give me a few more minutes to enjoy the view...” I am staring at him wondering if he realizes the danger he is in. It is not the same danger my partners and me are in, as he is very close to being tossed into the abyss. Me: "rope up Judd, or you can wait for the next party” We all look around at the abandoned summit crater. Judd: "ok" I am worried now about getting down fast for the delusional partner and because it has been warming up and with the fresh dump of snow last week there is some new slabs I have noticed. Me: "No breaks until we hit the top of the cleaver" Everybody: "OK" we go 100' and Judd stops. I realize if I continue to pull him, he will face plant and start sliding down the hill, I don't think he can arrest a fall if he cant open a water bottle and I don’t want to risk my partner’s lives. With all the stopping it takes us 1.5 hours to get down 2000' or so to the top of the cleaver. Both partners are descending well, no more naps. I think ok, now we just need to move down the cleaver, no problem. I am praying now because the snow is balling up and instead of whacking his crampons, Judd is using the pick of his Ice axe to scrape the snow out when he stops. I show him how well it works to just hit them with the ice axe but he ignores me. There is only about 3" of snow; just enough to slide out of control but not deep enough to arrest a fall. We take 2 painful hours to move down to the base of the cleaver. Judd is able to descend about 10' before resting. He doesn’t seem to care. I am watching the climbers at Ingraham Flats watch us. I wonder if they will get concerned enough to send a Climbing ranger up as we are moving soooo slow. In the middle of the traverse across the base of the cleaver, Judd stops. Judd: "sorry just a quickie" Me: "hey look were our other 2 climbers are" - they are directly under the slope that let loose and killed a guy about 2 years ago. "Keep moving we need to get them out of there before we stop” He sits down. Judd: "my crampon is loose." Me: "AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!" I notice another team coming down the cleaver above us and somebody in their team says to us: "Hey nice place to take a break! You should keep moving" Uh-huh. We finally get going and for some reason as we get closer to Ingraham flats, Judd doesn’t need to break. I am wondering what the difference is, terrain the same, snow the same, temps are actually cooler as clouds have moved in. Then I notice 2 guys approaching us from Ingraham Flats. Guys: "hi, are you ok?" (to me). Me: "Yes, just being careful" Guys: "You took a long time to come down" Judd: "Ya we've been climbing since last night, my partners are bushed!" Big smile and burst of energy. We keep going and get around the corner to Cathedral gap. Judd: "Just a quickie, could I get a hand with this water bottle?" Fast forward to Camp Muir 3:00 pm Judd is inviting us to go to Portland with him to play pool as we are furiously stuffing gear into our packs. He also asks us to look for his ORIGINAL partners who left Paradise with him and never showed up to Camp Muir. Apparently he successfully hitched a ride up to the top of the Cleaver with some other lucky group who dumped him there. That is cold, but I could see why they did it. I was impressed with Judd's consistent cheerfulness despite being cussed out by my partners several times. In hindsight, I should have offered to either take him down (and bag the climb) right away or not taken him up as his presence corrupted my original team and speed is safety especially in a long single push climb. We made it back to Paradise by 4:00 pm so - 17 hours round trip (BTW good glissading on the Muir snow field). This is 5 hours longer than we planned for and had run out of water. We figured Judd took about 100 breaks we wouldn’t have taken and that easily accounts for the 5 extra hours. I now understand why some guys insist on climbing something easy and not committing prior to taking a partner on a harder climb. I think it is a good policy. What do you guys think I could have done about Judd who apparently feels no guilt about burdening someone with his shortcomings and bad decisions? He didn't want to be rescued, just baby sat or guided. He did say, "thanks for letting me climb with you" but acted oblivious to the hardship he created on us. Anybody have as similar experience? How do you deal with the offender?

On mt. Rainer last summer, there was a tall guy from ?? who alledgedly made a living off of his website. His website consisted of trip reports and photos with his companion. His compainion is a MR POTATOHEAD. He hauled it up to Ingraham flats and pooped out. His website is pretty nice and funny, I just checked it out. http://www.interlog.com/~chapman/rainier.htm

I thought this site may tell me but it is mostly just about life and society in Canada. http://www.geocities.com/kanadian_korner/