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Scott, I think it's obvious that some people reading this support all four above (with maybe the exception of 2). I'm not talking about the AF and WCC, but am talking about Dane's vociferous opponents in the early parts of this thread and previous Dishman threads. If I remember correctly they justified these things because Dishman was a trash heap, etc... The people that replaced the chopped bolts and artificial hold may be reading this too. I'd suspect they endorse your 1-4. I agree that 1-4 suck, but Dane already tried "taking that shit down" and that shit was almost instantly replaced. So, unfortunately it's not that simple.

I just got it, and only read the "Ignorant Bliss" article. I thought the article was alright, a little one-sided (they make it sound like the access trail is barely there, when in reality it's only indistinct right at the start). A nitpick that struck me is that the topo is quite significantly off in a couple of places. I guess the editors felt they needed to put a picture in and just guessed where the route went (the author claims to have climbed it). Notably, the line is not completely correct on the part that everybody gets lost on! Although, their line does go by the key bush (once you find that, go straight up to bolted anchor).

RuMR, You're acting like a spoiled kid who isn't getting enough attention. Your contributions to this thread are about as entertaining as continual dinner-interupting telemarketer calls.

"The bushes"

Scrub 'em out (inside) with mild soap, warm water, and a scrub brush. Then put them somewhere they can air dry. If you've got shoe-funk problems, try to always give your shoes an edge in terms of drying out after climbing. That is, after climbing don't immediately shove them inside a plastic bag or deep into your backpack. Let them air out. Clip them to the outside of your backpack, even though this will make some insecure types think you are a poseur. Also try to store them in a place that facilitates the drying (baking hot non-insulated garage is a good place). If your shoes really stink, make sure the place you store them is isolated from humans.

Whoa! 2000m climb. Where can I find one of those in Washington?

Yeah shit! You wouldn't know which rope to pull when rapping

Caption This!

Something makes me think Steve House et al were doing very steep, icy stuff. Rope drag would not be an issue for that terrain. And Dru, I was talking about a pair of 100m ropes! Please stay on topic. Single, skinny 100m rope sounds like a pretty good idea. It is basically the double 50m setup I have been advocating, with the extra bonus of having a 100m rope if you really want it, no knot to hang up rapping.

Think of all the belays you could skip with a pair of 100m ropes!

Should Edwards be publicly flogged for using Cheney's daughter as a political tool?

I just thought of another excellent training characteristic of 60m ropes. Once you're winded from 10m of extra Xtreme rope drag; then, you sit down to belay and you get to yard the extra draggy rope up another 10m with one hand while belaying your second. This gives you a bit more of a grip-strength workout. re: N Ridge of Stuart, we used a single 60m and we were happy to have the extra length for the crux pitch on the lower ridge. We then doubled it for the Gendarme pitches (so we could haul the packs with one strand). I guess if you had twin 60's you could link the gendarme pitches. That might have saved us 10 minutes.

Agreed. Double 60m ropes are excellent for training! It builds your hiking endurance with the extra weight on the approach, make you a better climber from practicing climbing with the extra weight of Xtreme ropedrag, and give you 20% more practice in rope management skills. Finally, once you've mastered all this stuff, you can cut off the extra 10m and use 'em for dogleashes. ps: and that excellent alpine training route Infinite Bliss possibly requires 60m ropes.

It has come to my attention that some people view this little guy differently than I. I always thought meant you were good-naturedly verbally sparring with some mean sounding language. But the person I was talking to thought was more of a threat, like, "I'll kick your ass if I ever see you in person ". Anyway...what's the implication?

Time to repost this GREAT link seeming to out a Republican troublemaker trying to play the victim.

More attacks on Republican HQ's!!! The Reichstag is BURNING!!!!

Either that, or when Bush says he's made no mistakes other than hiring guys who ended up dissing him, Kerry should reply with something like, "You don't consider 1000 American soldiers dying while at the same time making us more vulnerable to terrorism a mistake!? This president is in a fantasyland ladies and gentlemen. How can you get us out of a mess, if you don't even recognize there is a mess. etc...", instead of the same boring shit he's said three times in the debate already. What a putz! Kerry's already decided to play the Iraq card. No more holding back

Excellent TR Michael! Nice climb

No, I'd say the core is that Bush "disclosed" more than he knew!

Greg_W is not currently banned. (billcoe note correct spelling) He's probably just sick of this place. Or maybe he's just sagging under the burden of the ever more difficult job of justifying the actions of the Bush adminstration

!!! double 70's! Holy cow! I'd suggest double 50's, but we've been through this before. If you're doing alpine climbing where there's a lot of wandering terrain you are going to get ropedrag (doublerope drag here). Obviously you get more drag the further out from the belay you are. A 70m is gonna give you 20 more meters of maximal drag. Also for alpine you will probably be doing non-trivial approaches to the climb. Think of the weight of two 70m ropes. If you are doing stuff steep enough so that you don't get a lot of ropedrag, you might need a lot of gear for those 70m pitches too (more weight). I guess you could compromise and get double 60's. I wouldn't, but then I'm screwed when I come across one of these climbs that requires 60m ropes. Only tip I can think about that may not be obvious, is, if the leader is alternating ropes on the protection then when she come to a clip, the belayer can give her a bunch of slack for the clip beforehand since the clipping rope is not the one leading back to the closest pro. Oh, and get two different color ropes, but you probably already figured that out.

I think Dru's example of the Squamish Butt is right on. It's the exact same situation bumped up a few grades. Say you wanted to have a fun time climbing and wanted to summit. The only part that is in the way is the 10c pitch. You could get by it by rope soloing. Big deal. Not a mistake. Perhaps impractical (carrying all that extra weight along for one pitch does seem to negate a bit of the fun), but if you're a peak-bagger and it's the only way (Squamish Butt analogy breaks down here) then you're gonna have to carry the weight anyway. Nothing wrong with carrying soloing gear along to safely circumnavigate a short spot. It'll be heavier, and maybe take some of the fun out of the rest of the hike, but if you really wanna summit that peak, then that's maybe the price you gotta pay. It's not a mistake just because someone's idea of fun is different than Dru's.

Maybe the Dems got some technogeek to jam his signal and cut him off from his prompter, and that's why he did so poorly last Thursday? I don't see why it's such a big deal though. Why not just have the whole cabinet up there with him while "debating"? It's not like there's ever a time when he has to run the country all by himself anyway. That way we'd at least get it out in the open who we were actually voting for/against.

Only if you're buying Cracked...oh wait a minute, not old enough to buy are ya? Old enough to get drafted though, funny how that works.