chucK

Peter, I was not suggesting that you threatened anyone. I should have used "one" instead of "you" but it would look pretty silly if I went back and edited that post now. Chuck

Peter, I still consider your remarks condescending, but I'll take back the smarmy part. I guess I don't know what that means. In respect your attempt to "civilize" the discussion on this board, I felt I should elaborate on my terse comments. An idea I find to "simplistic and ignorant" is that bolting is always a net positive. I've heard many times that people who want a safer climb will like the bolts, and those who don't can "just skip the clips". Anyone who thinks you can just try to ignore the bolts and retain the character of the original unbolted line just doesn't get it (yet?). I think I give the benefit of the doubt to champions of this idea by calling them ignorant. If someone out there doesn't get why this argument is vaccuous I'd be happy to discuss it via email. Which brings me to explanation of my view of the CC anti-bolter's style of argument. I called them "colorful" because I think they are often humorous and entertaining, as long as they are not threatening (to people, not in situ bolts). I understand that what is considered "threatening" varies depending on who's on the target end, but let's get one thing straight. If you're out at the crags or in a bar and someone gets in your face and starts insulting you, then that could easily be construed as threatening. Being called names on an internet chat board is more like someone yelling at you out of a car as they drive away. It shouldn't be too scary. You have no exposure, ESPECIALLY if you're one of those here who chooses to remain anonymous. Threatening to hurt someone by "mixing it up" or dropping rocks on them is not appropriate in discussion, even in an anonymous setting. What I find especially cowardly is getting in your threatening shot, then going back and editing away the evidence in an attempt to hide your attack from the rest of the community. Chuck

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: [We should in a civil manner but direct manner tell these jokers to get lost and that they are not only behaving poorly but shamefully[/b] Hey Peter, Isn't that: 1. Contemptuous insults, 2. An attempt to stop any real discussion? It certainly is condescending, and perhaps smarmy. I find many of the anti-bolt tirades on this site to be "colorful". I do think it gets out of hand when the Cap'n threatens people. I find most of the pro-bolt missives to be simplistic and ignorant. Chuck

JJ's beta sounds pretty good. You can check out my melodramatic account at http://members.home.net/cspieker/stories/stuart.htm You probably oughta buy or steal the (Brown) Beckey guide to get an idea of where the route goes. There's a pretty good picture of one possible route on Michael Stanton's web page http://www.mountainwerks.com/cma/stuart/stwhole.htm People are slagging the Cascadian Coulouir here, and maybe they're right for the way up, but on the descent all that sand and dirt is way cush. Chuck

I just drove in to the Dutch Miller Gap TH today. A bit less than two hours from Seattle. It is getting pretty bad at some spots, but mostly it's not too bad (if you got a high clearance vehicle). I used to drive my Rabbit in there though. Chuck

They're probably selling them on EBay. Chuck

I second the Aries chimney as a sandbag at 5.8, and definitely agree that the boulder start of the BK route is harder than 5.9. I don't know if it would be a sandbag to everyone or if it was just me that day, but let me take you back to a day a couple years back, on a sunny day, in the month of May... I'd climbed Davis-Holland-> Lovin' Arms and felt all proud (led, onsighted, the odds). Even though we'd been out of water for the last 3 hours or so we still wanted to climb something else and thought we'd go against all the bad press and try "The Back Road". I nearly soiled my pants on the first "5.8" move. Only made it after excavating a new hold from below the moss. I wimpered on the following paper-thin flake. Then I got up to those zig-zag (5.7) flakes and could not pull over on the last move. After a couple of tries I was trashed and resorted to shameless aiding. Maybe I was trashed from the last climb and/or the lack of water. Maybe that pitch really is hard? I sorta doubt it. Anyway, at the belay, I say, "That first move sure was hard for a 5.8!" My supportive partner replies, "It wasn't that hard". Chuck

check it out http://members.home.net/cspieker That one doesn't work anymore [12/04/01]Chuck [ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: chucK ]

Climbed Sawhorse Tower up near Columbia Peak a few weeks back. Waited to post this until I had the pictures. The way we did it was 6 pitches of sustained 5.6 or thereabouts. The rock is solid and the approach pretty nice (via the '76 Glacier). A very nice climb. TR with more pictures is on my new webpage. Sawhorse Tower Check it out

I soloed. I have rope-climbed above the notch before (West Ridge Coulouir route) and the protection is plentiful. I found the crux be below the final headwall. It was a handcrack about 5.6 probably. There may be a way to avoid it, but I didn't look too much because I like handcracks and this one was rime-free. I found a very easy way to get up the final headwall: traverse as far right as you can then go up and traverse all the way back left on a big ledge system to around the corner, then you can squeeze through a chimney under a chockstone which gets you to easy broken-up rock on the North side. Chuck

I climbed the West Ridge yesterday. My ice-axe was dead weight. I might have descended a bit low and missed a snowfield though? The West Ridge was scary as it had a bunch of rime ice on it. I kept going because I thought the sun was going to break out and melt it all. It got pretty ugly just past the West Ridge notch, but by alternating between the north and south sides I could usually find a route less crusted. Luckily the final headwall was above the clouds and was mostly rime-free. Phew! On top I was alternately on top of then inside of the clouds. Of course once I was in the Cascadian Coulouir all cloud cover burnt off. Chuck

Is the Teanaway Road open? Anybody know? Chuck

Blue Crack pitch - Dreamer Last (difficult) pitch NW Corner NEWS Damnation Crack First of the Outer Space handcrack pitches Corner Pockets p2 - Vantage Thin Fingers Cocaine Crack Local Boys Do Good p1 - Sqish Chuck

Back to the "Returnable Equipment Inventory" part of this thread: REI has this policy because it sells gear for them. If you're hemming and hawing over buying something, the person helping you (on one of the rare times you EVER get ANY customer service at that place) will use their highly successful deal sealer, "Just take it out to the hills. Try it out! If it doesn't work for you just bring it back." When given that option, how can you go wrong? You buy the damn thing. When I'm swayed by that pitch, I've entered into a contract. I'm damn sure not going to forfeit some of my value in the agreement; that is, I'll bring the sucker back if it displeases me (reasonable time, of course). We made a deal, me and REI. I gave them the money up front. They said I could take it back if I so DESIRED. I agree with Erik though, that it is not right to purposefully "borrow" stuff. By the way, has anybody noticed that they seem to be trying to slowly creep away from their "satisfaction guaranteed" policy? Also it is worthwhile to note that other, way better, gear shops will often give you reasonable satisfaction guaranteed contracts if you ask 'em. Chuck

OK here's the OS beta. Do the RPM start (you can avoid the 10d slab part). If you can't handle the 10b moves through the roof you can either aid them OR you can escape left where it gets hard using an easy but quite exposed traverse, which puts you back on the easy finish of Remorse. I call this the RPmorse start. It goes at about 5.9. Be sure you protect before the crux mantel (you'll figure out what I'm talking about) because you won't find anything after that for a while [and watch the rope drag]. And here's the beta on Dreamer: check out the topo on Mattp's [mattp@seanet.com I think] page. It is WAY better than the topos in Nelson or Smoot. The topo in the Traveller's guide will also suffice but is not quite up to date on the recent boltage. Hope this helps, Chuck

A better comparison in terms of amount of climbing is to do Outer Space and Orbit. Dreamer: shorter driving time nicer approach and scenery less people more bolts well-protected slabs better scenery no goats no trail-pass required Outer Space + Orbit less bolts awesome handcrack walkdown descent more dry more varied climbing goats looks like 7-5 for Dreamer in my tally Chuck

Bring your mountain bike. Chuck

Happiness = Reality - Expectations pack before you pack

Everybody oughta calm down here. If you're walking on the trail and some bonehead asks you to stop for some really stupid reason such the above sicheeashum, just try to think back to some time in your life when you held up a bunch of people due to your own stupidity, like stalling your car as the light turns green and not getting it started again until the next red, or taking 15 tries to get your PIN correct at the ATM, or how about fumbling for change on the bus? Everybodies done it, just let that girl take her turn too. It's usually not a big problem to have to spend 2 more minutes checking out the wilderness. Relax, check out the scenery. If you just cannot get over the indignity of some dork telling you where and when you can walk on a public trail, then berate the guy while he's stuck on guard duty. Heck, maybe you could whip it out right there and make constructive use of that downtime to shed some weight. Ask the guy to guard the trail for you. The madder you get, the more you've lost. Christopher, if yer girl is so shy and you're heading up to an extremely popular, treeless area maybe you ougta pack a floorless tent or something. Also, spraying about packing heat sounds like a good way to get shot. Chuck

So you've all heard the rants that "cigarette butts are trash, why don't smokers pick up after themselves" before,...but here's my new slant. Last week I was climbing Silent Running (3 O'clock Rock) and from the base all the way to the top of the 5th pitch we got to follow a continuous trail of sunflower-seed shells. I don't know why it bugged me so much, but after sitting with them at every belay and following their slimy path on every pitch, it began to grate on me. Don't people know these are trash? They probably think seed shells are biodegradable and so it's OK to leave them. Well TP is biodegradable too, and TP biodegrades a lot faster than those stripey little shells. To the dork who spewed his trash over five pitches of Silent Running, you're probably too stupid to figure out the above argument so let me just state that I'm NOT saying that it's OK to leave your used toilet paper about. I'm saying, stop spewing your f****n' shells all over the place. Have some class and suck on something else (or swallow) when you're out in the woods. Thankyouverymuch, Chuck

Guinness! I think I'm gonna puke. Guiness is the Starbucks of the fancy-pants beer world. Only thing worse than Guiness is that other stupid English beer with the f'n stupid widgit in it. Blech. Guiness, the day-old-coffee taste you love to pose to. Chuck

Oh by the way. I've also had very good experiences with rangers at the Marblemount station. It's hit and miss I guess. One tip: If you're getting backcountry permits you will be required to listen to the latest theories on the best methods of feces disposal. Unless you've got a lot of time to waste, resist the constant temptation interrupt the potty presentation with the obvious witticisms. Chuck

Here are my ranger obfuscation experiences up at Marblemount. I was heading up to WA pass with a buddy that had to leave a day early. We planned to meet at Marblemount and carpool from there. I called the RS and this helpful ranger told me of this trailhead right behind the ranger station at which I could park and leave a car. When we get there, I open my big mouth to the ranger now on call, apparently a different one, to ask exactly where is this TH. He gets all huffy about me wanting to leave a car there. I asked him directly if I would get a ticket if I left the car there and he gave me an evasive non-answer ("Might or might not", I think he said). We parked and didn't get ticketed. I don't know what his problem was. Another time I was up there trying to get information and this guy wasn't revealing any. I had called from home and they told me there were still permits left for the Eldorado Arm. When I got there, they said there weren't any. I asked for other places to go and he just basically says "I don't know". Then after I've given up and am looking at maps and such he starts spraying to his rangerette colleague how he was up nude sunbathing at Pyramid Lake and these tourists (you should have heard the condesencion in his voice on that word) arrive and were all freaked out. He then starts spewing how stupid they were to be freaked out by his nudity. I guess the taxpaying minions were cramping his style. Gotta love those public servants (that we're paying). Chuck

Self-registering is (was?) legal if you camp on the other side of Sharkfin Col (i.e. not in Boston Basin). To avoid dealing with the rangers, call them and find out what time the ranger station closes. Arrive there just after the closing time and self-register. Bivy at the car that night then walk in early the next morning. If you've got another night, I think it's legal to camp the next night in Boston Basin after you've spend one night in the cross-country zone. Chuck

Offwidthclimber, Your extrapolation to cams versus nuts does not hold water. I think the reason The Pope gives his blessing on the bolt in his story is because it was put up on lead. That person was climbing the mountain from the ground up. Removing the mountain's defenses is when you find a truly challenging section, and instead of attempting to climb it..FIRST you find a way around, lower down the climb, and remove part of the challenge by installing bolts. Is that more clear? If you can walk around the tough section and lower down, why not just toprope? That way you have not permanently removed the challenge, only temporarily for you, that day. And what's this crap about we're all different but we're all the same? Blech! Did you just call me a rap-bolter? Chuck