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#915065 - 10/14/09 08:50 PM Is Sponsorship a Sin?
BillA Offline
addicted to cc.com

Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 433
TRs: 4 Photos: 18
I think Scott Semple is right on.

Is Sponsorship a Sin?

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#915066 - 10/14/09 09:02 PM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: BillA]
BirdDog Offline
addicted to cc.com

Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 408
TRs: 8 Photos: 103
Loc: too close to civilation
Interesting. I don't know if it's a sin, but is sure is bullshit. Who the hell buys gear on the basis that's it's used by some asshole who gets it free and flys around the world on some corporate $$$$'s all the while professing some shit like "first ascent of the East Face of Mt. Dogshit to draw attention to global warming."

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#915075 - 10/14/09 09:36 PM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: BirdDog]
billcoe Offline
Spray Master

Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 11948
TRs: 4 Photos: 872
Loc: pdx
Originally Posted By: BirdDog
...Who the hell buys gear on the basis that's it's used by some asshole .....


Yeah! Who the hell does that ?! Cough* cough* (He says while he hangs head in shame, then quietly STFU while slinking off to fondle his gear) * cough*

lmao
__________________________________________________

The article makes some great points.

"The more you climb, the less you’re interested in reading the same recycled stories with the same characters smiling from new faces. And the less you can tolerate the self-promotion that comes from white lies and self-serving exaggerations in hopes of becoming (or staying) sponsored. And those indulgences are rampant and widespread."

Here here!
I hate having that self-promotion crammed down my throat, even when it's somewhat deserved. Some of the bouldering and sport climb stories seem to fit in there much better IMO. It's hard to bullshit on the stuff Dean Potter, Caldwell, Steve House and Alex Honnold to name just a few are cranking off these days. Those kinds of climbs. If someone is stupid enough to give them money for being fantastic climbers....have at it, bet they appreciate the scratch.

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#915099 - 10/14/09 11:38 PM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: billcoe]
layton Offline
sprayer

Registered: 11/27/00
Posts: 7496
TRs: 39 Photos: 811
Loc: Sandy, UT
the worst part of sponsorship is feeling like you have to perform and live up to the reputation and owing the company something. the worst part of someone trying to become sponsored is knowing them

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#915111 - 10/15/09 07:19 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: billcoe]
Hugh Conway Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 4416
TRs: 1 Photos: 24
Originally Posted By: billcoe
If someone is stupid enough to give them money for being fantastic climbers....have at it, bet they appreciate the scratch.


YOU and me, and every member of the gear buying public are that stupid SOB bill.

From the climber paid cash (very rare) to the climber paid in gear (less rare) to the climber who gets proform (fairly common) there's tons of people getting money or discounts for doing jack shit. Why? If they've got interesting stories to tell and pictures to show why not give them money or kudos directly at a slide show, by buying a book or other means?

Do you go out and buy a guitar to support a good artist?
_________________________
beacons do nothing! if you need to be in the death zone, then you have alredy shown your ability!!

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#915116 - 10/15/09 07:54 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: Hugh Conway]
malcolm777b Offline
member

Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 190
TRs: 5 Photos: 17
Loc: Bremerton, Washington
Originally Posted By: Hugh Conway

Do you go out and buy a guitar to support a good artist?


http://www.ibanez.com/ElectricGuitars/Series-jem
http://www.bcrich.com/warlock_kk_signature_wartribe.html
http://www.fender.com/blackie/blackie_home.html

I could go on and on....

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#915121 - 10/15/09 08:07 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: BillA]
John Frieh Offline
sprayer

Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 6290
TRs: 56 Photos: 1214
Loc: PDX
Originally Posted By: BillA
I think Scott Semple is right on.

Is Sponsorship a Sin?


Dead on.

Fuck the tabloid self promotion hype bullshit: climbing magazine/rock and ice/hot flashes/urban climber/etc etc

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#915125 - 10/15/09 08:24 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: layton]
Off_White Offline

Capricious Warlord

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 9268
TRs: 22 Photos: 363
Loc: Tenino
Originally Posted By: layton
the worst part of sponsorship is feeling like you have to perform and live up to the reputation and owing the company something. the worst part of someone trying to become sponsored is knowing them


lmao succinct, and spot on!
_________________________
Don't believe everything you think

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#915129 - 10/15/09 08:32 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: BillA]
marcus Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 262
TRs: 8 Photos: 71
Loc: Portland, OR
Question: Is posting about our exploits online another form of self-promotion - or is it just the modern equivalent of sharing our tales around the campfire? I'm still unsure on this one.

Receiving gifts or money for climbing certainly can alter one's core experience from one of (self)exploration to one of (external)production. That's a huge paradigm shift for sure...
_________________________
"Mundis Ex Igne Factus Est."

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#915132 - 10/15/09 08:51 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: marcus]
ivan Online   sickness
Sick Spray Bird

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 17478
TRs: 118 Photos: 1803
Loc: Oceania
Originally Posted By: marcus
Question: Is posting about our exploits online another form of self-promotion - or is it just the modern equivalent of sharing our tales around the campfire? I'm still unsure on this one.

if by the campfire analogy you mean having some bullshit to do when you're drunk n' bored, then check! (and probably why i'm near leading hte league in these parts smile )

most of the fun in creating tr's for me, aside from stroking meself, is in reliving and preserving the memory so, 10 minutes from now after i've seen somethign shiny, i can actually remember w/ some detail how the fuck i acquired all these new scars grin
_________________________
Ignorance is Strength
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery

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#915133 - 10/15/09 08:51 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: billcoe]
JosephH Offline
sprayer

Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 5616
TRs: 1 Photos: 478
Loc: PDX
Originally Posted By: billcoe
"...white lies and self-serving exaggerations..."

Now wait a damn minute here - I am my own sponsor and just how the the hell do you folks propose I make it through the winter, let alone crank it all back up again next summer, without my two main forms of hope and motivation...

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#915136 - 10/15/09 08:58 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: JosephH]
Bug Offline
sprayer

Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 6654
TRs: 5 Photos: 127
Loc: Redmond WA
All climbing gear companies should be banned from marketing.
That'll stop em from pullin all this shit! rolleyes
_________________________
You can't handle this.

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#915142 - 10/15/09 09:16 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: Bug]
Pete_H Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 2783
TRs: 7 Photos: 188
Loc: Der
I guess I don't know enough "rad" climbers to know if Semple is on or off base.

The few folks I know who are sponsored, as in they get free gear, don't seem to be adveresely affected and definitly don't overyhpe their accomplishments. They might give a quick plug for the gear company if they give a slideshow, but so what?

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#915148 - 10/15/09 09:39 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: Pete_H]
Water Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 1385
TRs: 8 Photos: 182
Loc: pdx
does sponsorship somehow detract from your own enjoyment of climbing?

purchasing magazines and gabbing about the climber of the week is purely optional, do you feel you have to be involved?

is the money spent on sponsorship adding to the price of gear you buy?

if the answer is no to these questions then I don't see why it matters. If it somehow is costing you out of your pocket, hurting your enjoyment of climbing, making you jealous, damaging rock, hell who knows--then maybe there is a point. climb your own climb--if someone wants to get free gear to climb poop mountain for global warming that is their deal, not yours--you can still go do poop mountain all you want.
_________________________
feel free to feel free

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#915150 - 10/15/09 09:46 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: Water]
JosephH Offline
sprayer

Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 5616
TRs: 1 Photos: 478
Loc: PDX
All it means is the demographics have exploded. Back in the day the ratio of climbers who sucked to those who were good couldn't support even a half dozen of the best climbers in the U.S. Today every climber with more than two pairs of shoes and an internet connection thinks they have a shot. It tells you that ratio is through the roof these days and that represents a pool of loose change everyone hopes to take a drink from.

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#915151 - 10/15/09 09:58 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: JosephH]
G-spotter Offline
Sick Spray Bird

Registered: 12/20/01
Posts: 15217
TRs: 57 Photos: 410
Loc: free range
Decrying sponsorship in one thread, and gear whoring about your sponsor's hottest new gear in another thread, makes for interesting dichotomy and possibly cognitive dissonance.
_________________________
Bagging a cougar is one of the most enjoyable sporting feats a young man can accomplish

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#915157 - 10/15/09 10:12 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: G-spotter]
John Frieh Offline
sprayer

Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 6290
TRs: 56 Photos: 1214
Loc: PDX
Did you guys read the article or not? First sentence: No (sponsorship) but bullshit is.

If you read it Semple has nothing against sponsorship for those that deserve it... I agree with him... it's very cool to see climbers such as Colin do what they love and are really really good at and thanks to the support of the companies go test their skills. Awesome! tup

It's the bullshit that is a sin. The "last great problem" or "super classic" adjectives that seems to reappear in every other report by certain people... classic by definition suggests it has no peer... i.e. no other climbs are as good.

And I cant tell who your comment is directed at Dru but if you're wondering I'm definitely not sponsored by anyone and honestly dont deserve to be... anything I've done is nothing compared to what is going on out there.

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#915158 - 10/15/09 10:17 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: John Frieh]
Water Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 1385
TRs: 8 Photos: 182
Loc: pdx
i read the article and agree he is talking about sponsored bullshit being the problem. but bullshit is bullshit, if you read some bullshit and eat it up that is on you.
does it detract from what Colin does? Detract from what you do? if not..nothing to see here folks, just some bullshit. I guess I don't really care nor want to invest time getting bent out by it, but to each their own--i have my own things I like getting riled up by, like traffic and other things worth stressing over.
_________________________
feel free to feel free

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#915159 - 10/15/09 10:22 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: JosephH]
olyclimber Offline
☼☼☼☼☼☼☼

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 25303
TRs: 47 Photos: 895
Loc: In Love with You
interesting side to this conversation is the movement to and fro with the climbing community reporting climbs vs. not reporting climbs. reporting a first ascent vs. not reporting. why do you climb? are you a "soul" climber, just doing it for yourself, no other reason? not that there is anything wrong with that. or are you promoting what you do for any reason (feeding your ego, getting sponsorship? or are you just sharing information you think others might want?).

in "the game" this board sits somewhere in there, along with "hotflashes" and the rest of the climbing media. we are "user publishes" vs. an editorialized medium, but there are few differences beyond that.

in the end i don't care about the egos or whatever drives you all to post your exploits here...just that you do. if you choose not to, fine, but the reality is that is why we are all here.

the author is pretty awesome though. he WAS sponsored, but decided that he didn't want to play the game anymore. bully for him. the game/bs/etc will go on without him.

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#915172 - 10/15/09 10:56 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: olyclimber]
Pete_H Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 2783
TRs: 7 Photos: 188
Loc: Der
Like Frieh, I know I'll never be sponsored by any climbing gear companies, but if velcro glove manufacturers offer sponsorships, I might be in luck.

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#915176 - 10/15/09 10:59 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: olyclimber]
G-spotter Offline
Sick Spray Bird

Registered: 12/20/01
Posts: 15217
TRs: 57 Photos: 410
Loc: free range
is it more decriable to rate a route you did IV 5.12 when it's III 5.11 to get it into the Alpinist Newswire, or to do the second ascent and claim it's a II 5.10+ even though you think it's really III 5.11 just so your name gets mentioned in Newswire along with the way you are such a badass downgrading sandbagger?
_________________________
Bagging a cougar is one of the most enjoyable sporting feats a young man can accomplish

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#915178 - 10/15/09 11:07 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: G-spotter]
olyclimber Offline
☼☼☼☼☼☼☼

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 25303
TRs: 47 Photos: 895
Loc: In Love with You
it is more decriable to discuss such matters on the interweb

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#915179 - 10/15/09 11:08 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: G-spotter]
marc_leclerc Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 1432
TRs: 41 Photos: 66
Originally Posted By: G-spotter
is it more decriable to rate a route you did IV 5.12 when it's III 5.11 to get it into the Alpinist Newswire, or to do the second ascent and claim it's a II 5.10+ even though you think it's really III 5.11 just so your name gets mentioned in Newswire along with the way you are such a badass downgrading sandbagger?


definitely the badass sandbagger....

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#915189 - 10/15/09 11:25 AM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: olyclimber]
G-spotter Offline
Sick Spray Bird

Registered: 12/20/01
Posts: 15217
TRs: 57 Photos: 410
Loc: free range
Originally Posted By: Jake Porter
it is more decriable to discuss such matters on the interweb


the interweb is the continuation of the shit-talking campfire circle by other means
_________________________
Bagging a cougar is one of the most enjoyable sporting feats a young man can accomplish

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#915211 - 10/15/09 12:00 PM Re: Is Sponsorship a Sin? [Re: G-spotter]
ScaredSilly Online   content
old hand

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 1101
TRs: 9 Photos: 26
Loc: Ootah, USA
Chouinard once said something to the affect that if you want to be sponsored to get a job. Or as I like to say - we are all whores we just sell ourselves in different ways. And some are better at it than others.

More seriously, several of my friends are or have been sponsored at one time or another. I have even been the recipient of some free gear from time to time. People forget that while we (i.e. climbers with a job) do just as hard core of stuff that those who are sponsored do the mfg. are not trying to sell their goods just to us. I was in Manhattan this week and saw a lot of people walking around wearing North Face clothing. I seriously doubted that many of those folks have climbed more than a set of stairs but hey they looked good.

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