Ferguson in Context

[tvashtarkatena]

You're haven't shown to be very data driven as compared to the other scientists I know, Jim, but my data is limited to this idiot box. Perhaps you apply more rigor to your profession.

 

And FW - continue to enjoy your stalking! It's good to have a muse, and everybody needs a hobby. Embrace confusion. It's your constant companion.

[Jim]

You seem to be confused here on how to construct a logic thread or develop a didactic construct regarding social science. That's ok. But more surprising for the wannabe lawyer is the abandonment of the legal construct once it doesn't fit the prescribed narrative.

 

If there's some fact-based omission in the Brown discussion that you're just waiting to spring as a climax, I'm all eyes and ears. No?

 

But I digress. One of us actually needs to work in the area of his profession. But please, don't let my absence stop you. I know it won't cheers.

[tvashtarkatena]

says the guy who's fucking around at work on CC.

 

Same same, no?

 

Data driven.

 

I don't know what can't be known. I think a dead, unarmed kid who stole some Cigarillos is an outcome that can probably be improved upon. That's my assessment of the Brown incident. Not the fashion these days, perhaps. I know, I know - my shit makes zero sense.

 

[Fairweather]

No stalking required when the fantasy starts bending in on itself. Your four-star ego is still working on its second stripe. Someone's gotta say it.

[tvashtarkatena]

You go, girl.

[Fairweather]

No big. It's just that, like, I hear claiming military service that never happened is the lowest. And padding an academic resume, well, than can get you fired I suppose. Better to just be who you are.

 

Now, as you were, "sailor!"

 

 

[JayB]

if you dont have time to read the studies, then dont.

 

fucking kids these days.

 

 

Yeah - don't have the time.

 

As you've indicated on a number of previous occasions, you have mastered your circumstances and freed yourself of the normal occupational/domestic responsibilities that bind and constrain the great mass of humanity, and are blessed with a glorious hyper-abundance of un-restricted time...and you've evidently read the study and found it convincing enough to present as evidence here.

 

In the passage that you cited, the authors are conducting their analysis at the level "violent offenses" and give no indication that they they've controlled for the nature of the offenses or the criminal history of the offender into account when generating the ratios that they present.

 

Your response suggests that either a) you read it and it didn't occur to them to discriminate between execution-style murder and purse snatching, or b) that you cut and pasted and haven't read it closely enough to know whether they controlled for those factors or not.

 

I'm going with a), but I'll actually be relieved if that's not correct.

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

I took the time I would have spent circle jerking with a guy I neither know nor care about who's too lazy to do his own analysis of the link I posted and crafted a talk on drone technology, surveillance, and regulation, which I then presented to six high school classes. Then I went for a hike.

 

Sorry if that doesn't agree with your approved time management philosophy. My bad.

[ivan]

does every american police officer need to be carrying a gun? police killings aren't unheard of in england, where most cops don't, but they sure seem much less common. keerist, even the fucking meter maids at beacon rock state park are strapped these days. isn't a radio and a can of bear mace good enough for 99% of cases?

[tvashtarkatena]

You mean why do the conductors on Seattle's light rail look like a SWAT team and travel in pairs? That kind of thing?

 

So somebody doesn't pay their $2.50...

 

"GET ON THE FLOOR! SPREAD YOUR ARMS! DOWN ON THE FUCKING FLOOR!"

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

"In a departure from this majority view, two members of the three judge panel in Farrakhan v. Gregoire held that the discriminatory impact of Washington state’s disenfranchisement law stems from racial discrimination in the state’s criminal justice system; the resulting denial of the vote is, therefore, a violation of section 2. At the trial court level, the plaintiffs, minority citizens of Washington who lost their right to vote under the state felon disenfranchisement statute, presented reports of expert witnesses on racial disparities in all levels of Washington’s criminal justice system. The reports highlighted studies showing that these disparities could not be explained by legitimate factors such as minorities’ higher levels of criminal activity. Notably, one study found that “substantially more than one half of Washington State’s racial disproportionality cannot be explained by higher levels of criminal involvement” (Farrakhan, 2010, n. 5)."

 

The state of WA did not appeal the case.

 

Well, there's a few data points for you from some professionals in the biz with lots at stake. Real live lawyers and judges and stuff. Assess credibility as required.

[JayB]

I took the time I would have spent circle jerking with a guy I neither know nor care about who's too lazy to do his own analysis of the link I posted and crafted a talk on drone technology, surveillance, and regulation, which I then presented to six high school classes. Then I went for a hike.

 

Sorry if that doesn't agree with your approved time management philosophy. My bad.

 

I hadn't considered the possibility that both A and B would hold in this case - my bad.

 

Anyhow - congrats on the presentations!

 

Will the next lecture be "How to Make Logically Valid Inferences from Statistical Data - Or Why Cops in Washington *Really* Love Women, Asians, Seventh Day Adventists, Quadraplegics, The Blind, And Everyone Else With An Arrest Rate Lower Than Their Representation in the General Population."?

 

Sorry - I keed, I keed. Back to less important matters.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

it might be if we get a request for that topic. all presentations are by invitation.

[Pete_H]

does every american police officer need to be carrying a gun? police killings aren't unheard of in england, where most cops don't, but they sure seem much less common.

 

Yeah England is sure an apt comparison. I mean there's probably nearly as many personally owned firearms in the whole country as there are in Renton.

 

England is also a bit of an anomaly among industrialized nations in that regard.

[tvashtarkatena]

gun ownership neither justifies nor explains the outlier number of police shootings in the US as compared to other civilized countries.

[Jim]

"In a departure from this majority view, two members of the three judge panel in Farrakhan v. Gregoire held that the discriminatory impact of Washington state’s disenfranchisement law stems from racial discrimination in the state’s criminal justice system; the resulting denial of the vote is, therefore, a violation of section 2. At the trial court level, the plaintiffs, minority citizens of Washington who lost their right to vote under the state felon disenfranchisement statute, presented reports of expert witnesses on racial disparities in all levels of Washington’s criminal justice system. The reports highlighted studies showing that these disparities could not be explained by legitimate factors such as minorities’ higher levels of criminal activity. Notably, one study found that “substantially more than one half of Washington State’s racial disproportionality cannot be explained by higher levels of criminal involvement” (Farrakhan, 2010, n. 5)."

 

The state of WA did not appeal the case.

 

Well, there's a few data points for you from some professionals in the biz with lots at stake. Real live lawyers and judges and stuff. Assess credibility as required.

 

Hmm. This is interesting. Though how it applies to the above discussion of racial injustice is, well, who the heck knows?

 

I can't tell which it is. Either you're using a random numbers generator to develop an argument or cutting and pasting from the first Google hit of "victory against injustice in Wa" - no matter the topic. In any event, the result is a narrative that bounces around the room more than a long-tailed cat in a room full of rockers.

[ivan]

i doubt anyone would disagree, but worth remembering not all coppers are cock-suckers

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/alabama-cops-gesture-to-shoplifter-goes-viral/

 

gonna need a good more of these per day to cancel out all the recent negative press though, eh?

[Pete_H]

gun ownership neither justifies nor explains the outlier number of police shootings in the US as compared to other civilized countries.

 

No one said it did, but the proliferation of guns in the u.s. does justify cops carrying guns.

[Pete_H]

Like Jim, I'm not sure exactly what your point is either. However, it is kind of ironic that you found that quote from an Alaskan law journal article about how the 9th circuit's (federal court of appeals) decision in Farrakhan was an anomoly. The article also stated:

 

To date the Courts of Appeals for the First, Second, Ninth, and Eleventh Circuits have analyzed the validity of such claims. Among the circuits, only the Ninth has held that challenges to felon disenfranchisement statutes raise valid Section 2 claims. The First, Second, and Eleventh Circuits are in accord (the latter two circuits sitting en banc as full courts rather than three judge panels) that such challenges fall outside the purview of the Voting Rights Act.

[tvashtarkatena]

landmark cases are often anomalies by definition. this is how jurisprudence and civil rights often move forward. comparing different cases is always apples to oranges - the previous circuit cases briefly noted above did not include the compelling evidence of the two studies referenced earlier. even so, individual judges often disagree in their opinions - as they did in Far. v Greg. SCOTUS cases commonly flip flop as they wind their way through the appeals process. nothing unusual here.

 

the takeawy is that Far. v Greg. ruling was so compelling that the state didnt appeal - a testament to the credibility and weight of the evidence presented. this makes the case a particularly powerful precedent. that its so difficult to prove a section 2 violation makes it even more so. .

[tvashtarkatena]

FYI - Tomorrow (thur) at 9pm, KUOW is airing on Speakers Forum a presentation given by Jeff Robinson (the civil rights attorney I mentioned in an earlier post) with state Supreme Court Justice Sheryl Gordon McCloud at the UW on use of force and policing in communities of color.

 

Should be very enlightening.

 

[glassgowkiss]

BTW, Ferguson goes much deeper then just the shooting.

[ivan]

like...to the civil war and marco polo n' stuff?