Charlie Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I don't know if anyone else has gone through this. After all of the accidents last season, I've found that my head is all screwed up now. I've lead Air Guitar several times, hung once, but never fell. Now, in the back of my mind, I'm wondering if I had fallen, what would have happened? I heard they were throwing a 200# bag from the top (while testing) and it was destroying all of the gear that was placed- I weigh 220#! I used to think that in the event of a whipper, I may rip a piece, maybe break an ankle, but decking never seemed to be a possibility. I'm all fucked up psychologically now when it comes to leading. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 It's simply a very personal matter of priorities. Only you can make the choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Where did you hear about the 200lb bag test Charlie? Was the gear "destroyed" or did it just pull out? Was there any indication of why the gear was ripping? Sounds like the rock, not the gear to me. Â Sorry for the nagging questions, I am just curious and perplexed as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted January 8, 2003 Author Share Posted January 8, 2003 Some friends told me they were at Vantage one day- and saw people doing tests on Air Guitar- throwing a bag full of rocks from the top- I guess (this is all 2nd hand, maybe the testers can add to this) they had placed the same type of gear used during the accident (old style camelots) and they were actualy breaking from the impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Assuming the story is true, there are a lot of facts that are not known. Don't get too excited yet, is all I'm saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gapertimmy Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Who else besides Mike Gauthier is working on the investigation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 hmmm...if it is destroying the gear (as in breaking the cams), the rock is obviously competent. I have a hard time believing the cams are breaking w/ a dynamic rope and a loose (unanchored) belay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 As far as this alleged rock-bag tossing, it sounds a little suspect. Like, can you imagine someone volunteering to belay a bag of rocks which, in the event of gear failure, would likely seek out said belayer with a vengeance? So, making the logical leap to some sort of totally static belay, it's kind of an extreme circumstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 This is what we in the 'puter business call FUD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 define FUD? Obviously Fucked UP something...?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted January 8, 2003 Author Share Posted January 8, 2003 The main purpose of my post wasn't about said bag tossing event. I was more asking for advise on regaining my lead courage. Anyone ever fell into a slump? Got back out? Thanks- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Charlie, the best advice I can give is to stop climbing and sell me all your gear cheap. Â Seriously, I think it takes a little time and some leads on climbs below your regular grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Climb with someone who takes big whippers on gear. Seeing one of my partners take a big fall on a yellow alien helped me get my confidence back up (and he is a big guy). If the rock is good and the gear is good, trust it and go, or throw in another piece as a back up and then go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 FUD = Flash, Uber-Doctor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted January 8, 2003 Author Share Posted January 8, 2003 Sounds good- how do I overcome my fear of Samoans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Spreading FUD = spreading Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. When one company trashes another company's technology by quietly leaking unfounded "news" about problems with the technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 For that I think you will need to seek counsiling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 so my analogy doesn't really work that well, whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Read this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Here's my interpretation. The take-home message of the article is that heavy climbers should act to reduce fall factors when they climb. This means placing gear more often, especially early in the pitch. Strange thing though was that when Goren Kropp fell (a big guy), he was near the end of his pitch. The fall factor was low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 (edited) OK I am a little hesitant to respond...so keep in mind this is what I was told by Erden. Â Basically what they BELIEVED happened was that when he fell the biner on the top piece (a wiregate) got wedged into the crack holding the pro. It was wedged perpendicular to the carck (parrallel to the ground). This pinched the biner, opening the gate. When it fully loaded with the leader's weight the gate was open (obviously at the biner's weakest position/point) and it failed. By that time he had a considerable amount of speed and force going and the seconda piece pulled. Â Don't quote me. This is what I took from a conversation with Erden at Carlos' slideshow afew weeks ago. I spoke with Erden today and he did not mention anything more about it. We were discussing his around the world epic. Â To Erden's adventure . Â P.S. Â What do the stars by our screen names mean? Edited January 8, 2003 by Rodchester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Can anyone tell me whether a solid gate traditional biner would be more resistant to breaking at the gate than a wiregate when loaded transversely (i.e. in the short direction)? Wire gates (so I am told) were developed for ice climbing where the gate is less likely to vibrate open with rope whistling through it. Obviously, the gate on a wire gate is less strong for any force direction other than longitudinal where the wire is in tension. I'm wondering if I should leave my wire gates at home when I go crack climbing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I think the issue is with the gate being open at the moment of impact. After all, the force required to open the gate is substantially lower than the force to bend the gate. Either way, the biners are plenty strong as long as the gate is closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 So in the case of Kropp, the biner broke BECAUSE the gate was open, even though it may have loaded along the strong axis. Perhaps the reason why the biner wedged was because Kropp was using quickdraws (as I recall). Maybe a longer sling might have kept the biner out of the crack? Now I have a terrible feeling this territory has been covered before- if so forgive me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I've wondered about this too. Which biner broke? The upper or the lower? If the upper broke, a longer draw/sling wouldn't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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