history nerd questio n

[ivan]

today being the 239th berfday of the marine corps

 

what is the historical problem w/ the opening bit of the corp's hymn?

 

From the Halls of Montezuma

To the Shores of Tripoli;

We fight our country's battles

In the air, on land and sea;

 

googling loses you style-points

 

[num1mc]

I don't know the answer, but we should get rid of them. They only operate as an expensive light infantry, something the Army already does. The Air Force and Navy already have air arms, why do we need a third.

 

Contested amphibious operations are now deemed impossible, but the MC still requires floating tanks which cost $70M each.

 

And now they want this stupid thing, because they can't operate their assault ship within 40 miles of shore.

http://rt.com/usa/171936-marines-new-massive-amphibious-vehicle/

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

fucking thread drift right off the bat

[G-spotter]

Seems like they postdate Montezuma by a couple hundred years, hombre. That was Cortez the Killer, a Spaniard.

[ivan]

Seems like they postdate Montezuma by a couple hundred years, hombre. That was Cortez the Killer, a Spaniard.

yer certainly heading in the right direction, and as a non-american, probably deserve the gold anyhow

[ivan]

I don't know the answer, but we should get rid of them. They only operate as an expensive light infantry, something the Army already does. The Air Force and Navy already have air arms, why do we need a third.

 

Contested amphibious operations are now deemed impossible, but the MC still requires floating tanks which cost $70M each.

 

And now they want this stupid thing, because they can't operate their assault ship within 40 miles of shore.

http://rt.com/usa/171936-marines-new-massive-amphibious-vehicle/

hard not to like the larger history of marine forces - the romans, for example, had no naval tradition, and early on in their contests w/ carthage got their asses handed to them - however, after figuring out how to just turn land-soldiers into sea-soldiers, soon set things to right

 

always liked that the usmc, w/ all it's warts, never was content to take in draftees - i imagine the ss must have had similar sensibilities?

[Pete_H]

Just a shot in the dark but possibly the shores of Tripoli refers to military action during WWII. I know that the Army were the primary branch of our military during the N Africa campaign. We're the marines even there?

[ivan]

operation torch, the landings in n africa in 1942, were pretty much an army-only affair BUT the marines DO have history there, just much earlier, which is relevant to this here puzzle

[Fairweather]

I recon those Barbary pirates could have been cluster-bombed from above using stolen 19th century Frenchie hot air balloon technology.

[num1mc]

I believe that the only USMC killed in WWII ETO were Marine gun crews in ships (if any) landing crafts and some observers. I don't have the stats at hand, but I believe it was much less than 50 KIA

[ivan]

I recon those Barbary pirates could have been cluster bombed using stolen Frenchie hot air balloon technology.

more than 1000 americans were casualties w/n 2 days of french vichy resistance to the landings, a fact i'd not appreciated until reading "an army at dawn"

 

is it time to provide answer? chronology is everything

[Fairweather]

I know those dirty once-our-friends Frenchies were shootin at us in North Africa in 1943. Bastards.

 

Not sure where you're heading with this. "In the air...?" We sure didn't have an air force deployed to Libya in 1802. Or to Mexico in 1848.

[Fairweather]

uncle.

[ivan]

whilst yer on the verge of solving the former, contemplate the later - to what is the third line referring in the following?

 

"We have fought in ev'ry clime and place

Where we could take a gun;

In the snow of far-off Northern lands

And in sunny tropic scenes"

[ivan]

the marines involvement in the wars of the barbary pirates ("the shores of tripoli" - our first undeclared war, unless you want to be a stickler on the xyz affair) predated their use in mexico ("the halls of montezuma") by several decades, thus the implied chronology in the initial verse is...like...wrong. i did say this was nerd-level shit, no?

[olyclimber]

[video:youtube]vsp18UOLveU

[Fairweather]

Good one, I actually did think about that whole reverse chronology thing, but got hung up on the "air." Besides, I have no doubt Marines would fight their way backward through time if given a half-working piece of junk time machine.

 

Good post.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

From the shores of Tripoli to the Halls of Montezuma just doesn't have the same ring :-)

 

Besides it's about their span across the globe not a chronological listing of operations. :-)

[tvashtarkatena]

Reverse chronology seems to be all the rage.

 

LULZ!

[Pete_H]

more than 1000 americans were casualties w/n 2 days of french vichy resistance to the landings, a fact i'd not appreciated until reading "an army at dawn"

 

I just finished the Atkinson trilogy this summer. I thought the books got better as they progressed. Army at Last Light was especially good. I loved hearing about Hemingway and his band of mercenaries kicking about Europe during the invasion partying in Paris and getting in on the Nazi killing action.

[ivan]

more than 1000 americans were casualties w/n 2 days of french vichy resistance to the landings, a fact i'd not appreciated until reading "an army at dawn"

 

I just finished the Atkinson trilogy this summer. I thought the books got better as they progressed. Army at Last Light was especially good. I loved hearing about Hemingway and his band of mercenaries kicking about Europe during the invasion partying in Paris and getting in on the Nazi killing action.

read the first part years ago gone by n' the words i learnt still ring out - kee-rist, that motherfucker's faster than most to lay a twenty-five cent word in yer lap!

 

- mien

- philippic

- debouch

- bumptious

- bilious

- crepuscular

- bon mot