Obama and his Lying Issues

[Fairweather]

the truth is communism killed more people then any other system put together.

 

No fucking shit. But still, you support a collectivized/centralized medical system here in your adopted country. Healthcare today, agriculture tomorrow? Like you said, it's the system. I'll take my chances with capitalism's invisible hand over the commie bureaucrats you seem so fond of. Not sure why you aren't making the connection. You can't have your cake and eat it too. (You'll have to look it up.)

 

I am sure using PUBLIC roads, or sending kids to PUBLIC schools is like entering gates of hell of a road to communism. Another load of shit argument.

First of all, there is no longer real free market system- it's weird hybrid of privatization of profits and socialization of loss. All the rest of developed countries has some form of regulated health system, it doesn't mean collectivization, that is some strange hyperbole of thinking- looks like your domain.

 

 

Roads, no problem--although I will say that the lefties have spent a good deal of time and effort of late trying to get us all out of our private automobiles and onto buses and trains where we can be "less individual." As for public schools, well, sadly the record speaks for itself, no?

 

Healthcare, however, is viewed by many (including me) as a step too far. Once the gloved hand of government is literally up your ass, all bets are off.

[Fairweather]

Meanwhile the rest of us can work at McDonalds for $7.50/hr and cut our meals into small bits to make them last longer.

 

Hey your new mayor and socialist city councilwoman are gonna get those McDonalds workers $15.00/hr--whether the market says their skills merit it, or not!

[olyclimber]

The new mayor is gay, so he is probably going to make us all be gay too.

[AlpineK]

Meanwhile the rest of us can work at McDonalds for $7.50/hr and cut our meals into small bits to make them last longer.

 

Hey your new mayor and socialist city councilwoman are gonna get those McDonalds workers $15.00/hr--whether the market says their skills merit it, or not!

 

Socialism is a growing movement. Seattle and Sea-Tac have it and it's moving towards Portland. Tacoma will catch it next since they're on the I-5 corridor.

[Fairweather]

I guess this means you can all come out of the closet then?

[Fairweather]

Ouch! Looks like the tool-in-chief is losing one of his biggest props:

 

[olyclimber]

I was really Time Person of the Year in 2006. Look it up.

[Fairweather]

I knew it.

[olyclimber]

Sorry, I'm not GW. And that isn't from 2006.

[glassgowkiss]

the truth is communism killed more people then any other system put together.

 

No fucking shit. But still, you support a collectivized/centralized medical system here in your adopted country. Healthcare today, agriculture tomorrow? Like you said, it's the system. I'll take my chances with capitalism's invisible hand over the commie bureaucrats you seem so fond of. Not sure why you aren't making the connection. You can't have your cake and eat it too. (You'll have to look it up.)

 

I am sure using PUBLIC roads, or sending kids to PUBLIC schools is like entering gates of hell of a road to communism. Another load of shit argument.

First of all, there is no longer real free market system- it's weird hybrid of privatization of profits and socialization of loss. All the rest of developed countries has some form of regulated health system, it doesn't mean collectivization, that is some strange hyperbole of thinking- looks like your domain.

 

 

Roads, no problem--although I will say that the lefties have spent a good deal of time and effort of late trying to get us all out of our private automobiles and onto buses and trains where we can be "less individual." As for public schools, well, sadly the record speaks for itself, no?

 

Healthcare, however, is viewed by many (including me) as a step too far. Once the gloved hand of government is literally up your ass, all bets are off.

Random wiretapping, illegal email surveillance is going too far- every item a shit results of fucked republican legislation, pushing this country into sovietization way more, then any healthcare law change. Thanks to GW this country is closer to soviet model then any leftist could ever accomplish.

Back to the topic, I still stand by my statement, that soviets were far more radical and unpredictable, then Teheran ever was.

And we should be paying far more attention to what is going on inside Pakistan, which already IS a nuclear power. Sending drones and killing civilians inside a sovereign country is not a wise foreign policy. We would not have to worry about radical islamist government in Teheran, if this country would not blindly support mass murdering maniac (Pahlavi), who was not any different from Hussein or current royal family in S. Arabia.

[Fairweather]

Random wiretapping, illegal email surveillance is going too far- every item a shit results of fucked republican legislation, pushing this country into sovietization way more, then any healthcare law change. Thanks to GW this country is closer to soviet model then any leftist could ever accomplish.

 

Um, you might want to go back and take a look at Patriot Act origins. 98-1 in a bi-partisan vote. But I don't think GW was ever accused of "random" wiretapping, meta email collections, hacking the phones and computers of reporters, or using the NSA and IRS against political enemies--that's all on your guy, Barack H Obama. Now he's cheering the Democrats in the Senate as they roll back 200 years of minority filibuster protections. You know what I think? I think you and your fellow lefties are ok with your guy spying on all of us--especially conservative groups--because on your way to utopia the ends always justify the means. What a bunch of hypocrites.

 

I'm just surprised B-Ho hasn't resurrected FDR's Supreme Court stacking scheme yet.

[Crux]

Meanwhile the rest of us can work at McDonalds for $7.50/hr and cut our meals into small bits to make them last longer.

 

Hey your new mayor and socialist city councilwoman are gonna get those McDonalds workers $15.00/hr--whether the market says their skills merit it, or not!

 

Socialism is a growing movement. Seattle and Sea-Tac have it and it's moving towards Portland. Tacoma will catch it next since they're on the I-5 corridor.

That's alright, Fairweather will be just fine. He's got guns. But if that millionaire-tax thing gets traction though, and spreads to Tacoma, mebbee he then start acting up such that by contrast his current flail-fest be looking like a Shirley Temple tap dance on benzos and alcohol. (Which his act kinda looks like already, but you know what I mean.)

[ivan]

Ok, then by your logic bombing the Deuterium production plant at Vemork in occupied Norway in 1943 to set back the German nuke program was wrong? Got it. Don't you think keeping the Mullahs from getting the bomb in the first place is far better than targeting Tehran and all the folks who live there after the fact?

this really ain't that hard to intuit through - are we currently in a declared war w/ iran?

 

i don't think i have any right to dictate what government the people of iran have - i think the current shit state of affairs between our nation and theirs is precisely b/c people like you think the opposite - i don't give a fuck about their mullahs and they can do whatever they wish, including build nukes if that's w/n their abilities, so long as they wreck no harm in my homeland - i sincerely hope that, if they produce them, that we can talk out our differences w/o these terrible weapons being used (it seemed to answer in the cold war), but if that fails, then sadly many will die on both sides (many more on theirs, as we no doubt have a huge advantage), so let's focus on keeping the relationship positive enough that doesn't have to happen, eh? treating them like we're a bully doesn't seem likely to produce positive results...

[Fairweather]

Unfortunately Feck and Crux are a little late on this whole socialism wave Tacoma been at the fore of this so-called new thang since about 1910 public ports and IWW and Homer T Bone and national guard and riots and breakin the railroad waterfront monopoly and shit like that and that's right we are the the original american commies down here but not choppin off commie nuts like they do in Centralia mmmhmmm read a book

[Fairweather]

Ok, then by your logic bombing the Deuterium production plant at Vemork in occupied Norway in 1943 to set back the German nuke program was wrong? Got it. Don't you think keeping the Mullahs from getting the bomb in the first place is far better than targeting Tehran and all the folks who live there after the fact?

this really ain't that hard to intuit through - are we currently in a declared war w/ iran?

 

i don't think i have any right to dictate what government the people of iran have - i think the current shit state of affairs between our nation and theirs is precisely b/c people like you think the opposite - i don't give a fuck about their mullahs and they can do whatever they wish, including build nukes if that's w/n their abilities, so long as they wreck no harm in my homeland - i sincerely hope that, if they produce them, that we can talk out our differences w/o these terrible weapons being used (it seemed to answer in the cold war), but if that fails, then sadly many will die on both sides (many more on theirs, as we no doubt have a huge advantage), so let's focus on keeping the relationship positive enough that doesn't have to happen, eh? treating them like we're a bully doesn't seem likely to produce positive results...

 

[AlpineK]

Unfortunately Feck and Crux are a little late on this whole socialism wave Tacoma been at the fore of this so-called new thang since about 1910 public ports and IWW and Homer T Bone and national guard and riots and breakin the railroad waterfront monopoly and shit like that and that's right we are the the original american commies down here but not choppin off commie nuts like they do in Centralia mmmhmmm read a book

 

Not to worry. Friends and family live in Tacoma, so the political undercurrent is already a known quantity. Taking the State Capitol in Olympia should be no problem. Evergreen College is nearby after all.

 

I predict a northwards political movement from the Portland area. That leaves Centralia trapped with nowhere to run nowhere to hide.

[ivan]

wonderful argument (not that it has anything to do w/ what i said?)

 

sure, as you illustrate, the extreme liberal-take on foreign policy has over-tones of kumbaya and utopia, but the other side you seem to favor, the world in which the strong can do whatever the fuck they want to the weaker, dressing the whole thing up in equally bullshit ideologies, is easy to mock w/ a meme too

i'm no extremist, but if i have to pick one over the other, i'll take unicorns over buchenwald, flying-pigs over falling heads, ruby-slippers over jack-boots.

 

 

[glassgowkiss]

US foreign policy is on parr with a crazed firefighter, who was setting up blazes in Oregon in the 90's just so he can feel like hero fighting them later.

FW doesn't like soviets, yet he really likes their methods. He seems to also neglect that almost every single crisis this country is forced to deal with, was in part created by the stupid and unwise politics of this very government. WWII, cold war, Vietnam, rise of Taliban, crazed Teheran rulers, and the list goes on. Let's add Panama to the list as well.

The whole issue of cold war would not even exist if US and GB would not hand over eastern and central europe to stalin.

So I am glad that for once there is an administration thinking in terms longer then 4 year election cycle.

 

[ivan]

The whole issue of cold war would not even exist if US and GB would not hand over eastern and central europe to stalin.

how were they to take those places back w/o a third world war? certainly there were americans in '45 like patton eager to keep fighting the ruskiis, but i don't see how that would have ended up better than what happened otherwise.

[Fairweather]

In a way I agree with GGK; dividing up the spoils of war at Yalta before the conflict was even over--and with a nation that we knew would soon turn from ally to enemy--strikes me as immoral. What's more, we turned around the following week and incinerated 40,000 German civilians in Dresden not because it was going to accelerate Hitler's demise in any way, rather, because we wanted to show the USSR what we were capable of. :vomit: Partnering with Stalin against Hitler strikes me as immoral on many levels as well--starting with his mutual invasion of Poland in September of 1939 and he and Hitler's similarly-bloody resumes. Neither one the lesser of two evils, IMO. Of course, FDR gets a pass on all of this from you libs because he gave us Social Security and all kinds of the big government that you crave to this very day. Plus, as GGK points out, he was a real softy when it came to commies.

 

But to Ivan's point, what were we supposed to do? I guess we could have let Hitler beat up on Stalin a bit more by cutting off the lend/lease program--but the Russkies would have beaten the Nazis anyhow. At the end of the day, however, Ivan's thinking re Iran closely matches that of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg in that we shouldn't be the sole holders of nukes.

 

 

[Fairweather]

wonderful argument (not that it has anything to do w/ what i said?)

 

sure, as you illustrate, the extreme liberal-take on foreign policy has over-tones of kumbaya and utopia, but the other side you seem to favor, the world in which the strong can do whatever the fuck they want to the weaker, dressing the whole thing up in equally bullshit ideologies, is easy to mock w/ a meme too

i'm no extremist, but if i have to pick one over the other, i'll take unicorns over buchenwald, flying-pigs over falling heads, ruby-slippers over jack-boots.

 

 

In case you haven't noticed, the former seems to too-often lead to the latter.

[ivan]

i'm not looking to rebuild the world or fix all the fuck-wit that humans have wrought - i'm quite certain that treating others as equals though, whether they be so in actuality or not, nation-states or random nabobs rambling along the way, is not going to lead me to supporting gulag archipelagos and the like...

[ivan]

At the end of the day, however, Ivan's thinking re Iran closely matches that of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg in that we shouldn't be the sole holders of nukes.

 

i don't know enough about this star-crossed pair to cast my lot in w/ them or not, but yes, in principle, i do think all nations have the right to do and act as others, as this is so common-sense a social expectation amongst individuals in a small-setting as to be incredible that it need be explained when scaling it outwards

 

[glassgowkiss]

FW- in regard of building nukes by Teheran, US can do 2 things- jack and shit. The same went for N. Korea, Pakistan and India. Militarily Iran represents the smallest threat, as their military does not have long range delivery capability.

Iran is not seeking world domination, nor destruction of this country. Looking back, going to war with Iraq, destabilizing the region, triggering religious civil war was the biggest gift this country could deliver to Teheran, and thanks to the hawks and GW crew we did. So instead now panicking over Mullahs with nukes, you should thank previous administration for creating this situation in the first place.

And if you REALLY worry about national security, the first step would be moving production capacity back to this country. I would be far more concerned with N. Korea and China.

[olyclimber]

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