I don't ski and it's bringing me down

[Water]

deals are avail. I got my boots in 2011 as a 3 or 4 year old boot already, but for $299. Yes they weigh 4.5lbs each but meh. Likewise found a modern rockered etc blemished ski for $299. Between the two I saved a fair bit vs $500+ for each of those items. harder to find binding deals.

[bstach]

shucksans on EVO right now for $199.

 

http://www.evo.com/outlet/skis/k2-shuksan.aspx

 

Thanks for the link, Rob. I might pick me up a pair of those. Also looking for some skis for my wife to ride on the groomers, that site has is all.

[mountainsandsound]

Do you board??

 

Yes actually. Snowboarding at Mt. Baker is the reason I gave up XC skiing as a 13 year old. But I don't have a split board and I haven't been on a lift in several years. There have been a few times when I hiked/climbed up an objective in Invernos or snowboard boots with my old snowboard on my back, and then strapped in for the ride down. So I am comfortable riding a snowboard down steep terrain, but I figured I would be better off learning to ski. Seems like if there is a lot of up and down and flat terrain mixed in, skis would be better than a split board and would hold an edge better than a split board in split mode. Maybe I am going to upset people with that last bit of speculation.

 

I guess if I was really into riding, splitboarding would make more sense. I'm not stuck on the idea of having one foot in front of the other. It just seems like there is a lot of backcountry terrain where skis would be more practical for getting from point A to point B, which is why I'd like to learn skiing. Also I would like to follow in the footsteps of my Scandinavian forebearers.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Nater

[rob]

It just seems like there is a lot of backcountry terrain where skis would be more practical for getting from point A to point B, which is why I'd like to learn skiing.

 

Indeed. Every time I am out with a splitboarder who has to stop and turn his board back into skis because the terrain levels out, I am grateful that people on cc.com convinced me to learn to ski instead.

 

[G-spotter]

FWIW, I was told by someone whose experience I trust that you'll take a significant risk breaking your ankles using Silvrettas if you don't know how to ski really well.

 

But if you use Dynafits, unicorn sightings are practically guaranteed. sickie

[JasonG]

No, Nate, skis ARE far superior for BC travel.

 

I used to have the deep powder fun high ground, but stinking early rise tips and fat skis are making that argument moot. I liked it better when skiers didn't ski like snowboarders.

 

Learn to ski. I need to take that advice too, maybe when my sons learn.

[Alex]

I'd echo what most posters are saying, to reinforce you making the correct decision: learn to ski, and on the proper gear. Climbing boots are not the proper gear. I've been skiing since I was 4. I used to think I was a hardman skiing around on 404s in my Nepal Tops; because I've been skiing long enough, I could actually do it without wiping out ALL the time. But I still wiped out regularly. I just didn't know any better. Then I borrowed a buddy's Dynafit setup for one weekend.

 

Trying to learn in plastics with 404s and without buying a ski ticket and a lesson might be somewhat cheaper, but its a great way to get injured for the rest of the year. The modern randonee boots with their thermal-moulded linings, lockable ankles/cuffs, nice walking rocker to the sole, and great plastics are far superior to most climbing boots these days for long days in the mountains and snow. You don't have to go Dynafit, you can get any good setup, it will just be a little heavier.

 

Buy some night tickets or better yet a night pass to the Summit, focus on becoming an adept in-bounds skier on your decent rando setup this season, and you'll never look back.

 

Alot of the winter climbing routes in the cascades have now also been skied, just goes to show how much mileage you're going to get with the right skilz. Climb up, ski down.

[BootsandPants]

Skiing is most definitely a worthwhile access tool, especially here in the NW with the amount of snow we get. I would definitely suggest taking the time to learn how. It may take a season or two inbounds, but definitely worth it on the time and fun scales.

 

Like everyone else said, don't learn with mtn boots and silvrettas. Those things are hard to ski on for a good skier in decent conditions. Sure you can do it, but why? You can cut steak with a spoon if you try hard enough...

There are good deals on new past years equipment and numerous used deals abound, especially at this time of year as people gear up for another season. Rentals are another good option until you figure out if you like it or not. I rented for 3 years before getting my first set up and was glad I did. By that time I knew enough to be able to decide what I wanted out of a ski and boots.

 

I'm not sure where you are located, but if you're in the greater Seattle area and are looking for lesson opportunities, check out the Wednesday night lessons up at Summit West. It's a 6 lesson series that's pretty affordable (they will do rentals too if you don't have gear) and takes all skill levels. I did it last season and picked up a few valuable tips (and I've been skiing for 20 years), and had a good time. It's a great way to get out on the snow, learn some stuff, and still have the whole weekend free to do whatever.

 

Most importantly, have fun!

[mountainsandsound]

Jeez you guys, skiers are good at cultivating stoke! Can't wait. I'm a world away teaching in Iowa now for one more year, looking forward to my long winter break in WA

 

Another issue I have noticed being a slowshoer (in addition to the lack of exhilaration), is that many fellow slowshoers do not have much in the way of avalanche awareness or beacon usage. All the people I trust to pull me from an icy tomb (or, actually, not get in that situation in the first place) have skis for the most part.

 

[trumpetsailor]

Looks like Evo has BackUps too, which are a hair wider underfoot.

 

http://www.evo.com/outlet/skis/k2-backup.aspx

 

Recommended gear acquisition order:

Boots (must fit well to prevent sadness; Dynafit compatibility is good)

Bindings (Think Dynafit. Reliable release is cheap compared to knee surgery.)

Skis (You can skimp here, but >80 mm waist is a recipe for happiness)

Skins (Can skimp here too, though you want them at least as wide as the waist of the ski)

 

Agreed with everyone above; learning to downhill ski inbounds yields better quality skiing much faster. It's possible to learn to ski in the backcountry, but it's less fun and far less effective. For ski technique, good instruction and a couple days on a lift is worth a year in the backcountry.

 

Edit: I do know at least one excellent climber who exclusively snowshoes.

Edited October 16, 2013 by trumpetsailor

[jordansahls]

Definitely take skiing lessons. The money you spend at the resort will pay itself off in strides when you get into the back country. I did the exact opposite. I spent my teen years snowboarding at Stevens pass. I got into climbing and mountaineering and a friend convinced me to get a back country ski setup. I was a poor college student and so I didn't have the money to pay for lift tickets. I learned to ski exclusively in the back country. It's a long, steep leaning curve. I have been skiing now for about 7 years and have still not been to a ski resort. It took me the first three years to get the basics down. Think of it this way, a years worth of back country skiing is equal to a couple of days at the resort. I have no regrets, but learning at the resort would have made my life a hell of a lot easier.

[trees4me]

If you don't have time to learn to ski and are a competent snowboarder, you should just get the saw out and make your snowboard into a split. That's going to be the cheapest option dirtbaggest option. It'll get you down (not necessarily up) a lot faster on most winter trips. Just get binding kit and skins and you're good to go.

 

Depending on the trip and snow conditions, snowshoes can be the ideal weapon of choice. Plus it's way easier to land a front flip on snowshoes

 

Learning to ski takes time. Learning to skin efficiently takes time. Learning to descend in any snow condition in the cascades takes time. Don't let people fool you, skiing is not faster right away but it can be much much faster.

[Cobra_Commander]

Unless you are a really f'ing good snowboarder and are insanely fast at your transitions you will be left behind by your skiing friends. Only the very best split boarders can keep pace with good skiers in ski mountaineering terrain in my opinion.

[mountainsandsound]

 

Learning to ski takes time. Learning to skin efficiently takes time. Learning to descend in any snow condition in the cascades takes time. Don't let people fool you, skiing is not faster right away but it can be much much faster.

 

Yeah, I'm trying not to get too excited. Hoping that some of my XC skills might translate, but not totally expecting it. I'm thinking more about making mellow approaches more enjoyable rather than going all Hummel Helmstadter or Skoog.

 

Like skiing up to Muir, stashing the skis, climbing the Gibraltar Ledges in boots, and returning to the skis for a nice ride back to the rig. Baby steps.

 

You guys are helpful. I may solicit advice in the future regarding gear selection, but I think I'll rent first and try different set-ups, which is something I rarely do before buying gear.

[KirkW]

Agree with just about all the advice so far. You CAN learn to ski in the BC on lightweight gear but its not nearly as fun as ripping on some heavier sticks.

 

At the end of the epic 2012 season I bought some sloppy, old and hardly used tele bindings along with some slightly used T3's for $100 or so and a light but fat fish scaled ski, $249 brand new in the wrapper. Some closeout skins and a setup fee had me ready to shred for less than 5 bills. I then proceeded to fall down several volcanos. Luckily not injuring myself (too badly.) Your first Tomahawking wipeout down a wide open bowl with 30 pounds of shit and a bunch of pointy objects on your pack is a special day indeed.

 

I now feel comfortable saying I can ski but It took more effort than I ever imagined and even after 50+ days in my duckbills Im still not very good despite upgrading to the beefiest used setup my meager wallet would allow. About 65% of those days were in the BC and were a great way to learn how to survive on skis. The other 35% were the days I learned how to have fun on skis. Skiing is kinda like sex though and you don't have to be very good at it to really enjoy the hell out of it.

 

And what's this climbing thing you speak of?

[rob]

 

Learning to ski takes time. Learning to skin efficiently takes time. Learning to descend in any snow condition in the cascades takes time. Don't let people fool you, skiing is not faster right away but it can be much much faster.

 

Yeah, I'm trying not to get too excited. Hoping that some of my XC skills might translate, but not totally expecting it. I'm thinking more about making mellow approaches more enjoyable rather than going all Hummel Helmstadter or Skoog.

 

Like skiing up to Muir, stashing the skis, climbing the Gibraltar Ledges in boots, and returning to the skis for a nice ride back to the rig. Baby steps.

 

You guys are helpful. I may solicit advice in the future regarding gear selection, but I think I'll rent first and try different set-ups, which is something I rarely do before buying gear.

 

I found skiing to be a lot like playing the guitar -- SUPER easy to learn, but harder to be really good at. You'll be surprised how much you'll learn in just a few days at the resort, especially if you throw a half-day lesson in.

[Jason4]

Unless you are a really f'ing good snowboarder and are insanely fast at your transitions you will be left behind by your skiing friends. Only the very best split boarders can keep pace with good skiers in ski mountaineering terrain in my opinion.

 

This is a bit misleading and I could counter with saying that you'd have to be an amazingly good skier to keep up with even an average snowboarder in breakable crust. There are advantages to both and there are disadvantages that are specific to splitboarding. Anytime a ski that's less than 130mm in the waist is a major advantage a splitboard is going to be slow on the up. That makes for most of the spring touring/climbing season. Anytime a binding release results in losing a ski in a crevasse a snowboard is at a major advantage, it's been a long long time since I've had a snowboard release and runaway.

 

Specific tools excel in specific conditions. That said, there is no way that I'm going to go out and learn to ski just for the ski mountaineering aspect, I feel comfortable enough on a snowboard that I feel serious descents are not an issue.

 

Transitions are not an issue if everyone is transitioning at the same time, it's only a few seconds slower on a splitboard and I've waited for enough friends to deal with dynafiddles that it really isn't based on which way you face on the descent. It is an issue on rolling descents with benches where skiers can waddle /herringbone across them while snowboarders are left with the dreaded scooch. This is a pretty rare issue for me in the terrain that I play in.

 

Either way, if you're an adult and you're sliding on snow with sticks made of wood and plastic you better be smiling because there really isn't another reason to do it.

[mountainsandsound]

Rob, I think I get your guitar analogy. For me, the transition from AC/DC to Santana was rough and never came to full fruition.

[Cobra_Commander]

This is a bit misleading

 

No. If your friends can't transition in the time it takes you to assemble a splitboard, your friends have work to do. The only advantage to a splitboard is if you are already a dynamite snowboarder or have the gear. You get thrashed on the uphill, traversing sucks both skinning and riding, you have a set of sails on your back when carrying, the wide skins are a pain in the ass, and if the terrain is rolling (a considerable chunk of good PNW terrain) you will be left behind. There are those who make it happen, but they are the exception.

 

I think it's a disservice to lure a mountaineer into splitboarding when there is an option to go with skis, as it will eventually be limiting.

 

People generally don't seek out long breakable crust runs.

[Alex]

skis and snowboards suffer equally on hard avi debris you can make up whatever contrived examples you want to support your arguments, but fact is that either splitboard OR skis are going to be way more efficient than snowshoes so the long term goal should be some form of sliding. Stay focused

 

I think one other thing that deserves to be said is invest in a beacon if you don't have one

[trees4me]

 

People generally don't seek out long breakable crust runs.

 

Right. People seek out mountain objectives and long breakable crust runs are just a bonus!

 

If you're already a boarder, then either carrying your board with snowshoes or getting a split is a natural progression in winter travel. It's a bigger leap to just start skiing, one that only pays off if you're willing to put in the time. For any of the gear, just by something cheap to try it out.

[mountainsandsound]

I think one other thing that deserves to be said is invest in a beacon if you don't have one

 

Ah, the one piece of gear I might have to pay full retail for. Hard for me to stomach. Can't use the REI 20% off coupon for those. Not sure that's the kind of thing to buy used either. I've had much luck borrowing or renting for cheap, but I have to pony up the cash at some point.

 

I've become familiar with and like the Tracker 2. Is there anywhere that has just a little sale on those ever?

[rob]

Not sure that's the kind of thing to buy used either. I've had much luck borrowing or renting for cheap, but I have to pony up the cash at some point.

 

If you don't mind borrowing or renting, then buying second hand isn't a stretch. They're available used all the time, and they're easy to test. I mean, just saying. I bought a brand-new beacon, but it's turned into a used one and seems to still be working.

[mountainsandsound]

True, I see your point. The best is "nearly new" used gear from people that went all out and bought everything, only to find a short while later it wasn't their thing. Or felt compelled to upgrade immediately.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Nater

[Jason4]

This is a bit misleading

 

No. If your friends can't transition in the time it takes you to assemble a splitboard, your friends have work to do. The only advantage to a splitboard is if you are already a dynamite snowboarder or have the gear. You get thrashed on the uphill, traversing sucks both skinning and riding, you have a set of sails on your back when carrying, the wide skins are a pain in the ass, and if the terrain is rolling (a considerable chunk of good PNW terrain) you will be left behind. There are those who make it happen, but they are the exception.

 

I think it's a disservice to lure a mountaineer into splitboarding when there is an option to go with skis, as it will eventually be limiting.

 

People generally don't seek out long breakable crust runs.

 

I'm not saying I'm faster with the transition, I'm saying I'm not more than 30 seconds slower and I've seen that time eaten up with guys falling over trying to rip skins while standing or trying to dig ice out of their dynafit sockets.

 

If someone is starting from scratch then skiing is the obvious choice but for someone with a strong snowboard background I wouldn't suggest taking the step backwards to learn how to ski.

 

I don't go looking for breakable crust laps but I seem to find them more often than I want.

 

The best part of skiing is the flexibility in the ski quiver: skinny skis for hard conditions and fat skis to keep up with snowboarders in pow. Splitboards just get shorter or longer and that doesn't help much on the up.