Marathon recovery and climbing

[Rickpatbrown]

Are there any marathon runners out there?

 

I'm running my second marathon this weekend and have surprise trip to Maine a week after. I'm conflicted as to how to run the race and make sure that I'm in good shape for climbing. I'm sure if I take it easy during the race, I'll be just fine for climbing. I'm wondering if I can run it hard an still be ok for climbing. We will be on the mountain for 5-6 days.

 

I ran my first marathon last October in 3:27. I was really sore for about 5 days after and minorly sore for about 10 days. I was running shorter distances with acceptable soreness a week after the race.

 

I want to run this marathon in 3:20(3:19:50 is always soo much better, though). I imagine that this will be about the same effort as my first marathon. I would expect a similar recovery as I had in the fall.

 

My concern is that the faster I run the race, the more I would be increasing my risk of injury while climbing. I will be in a semi remote (for the northeast) location. I don't want to put my climbing partners and myself at risk. I also don't want to waste a race.

 

I am pretty inexperienced with climbing. I've only been ice climbing for a year. I've backpacked for 10-15 years. I've been rock climbing for a couple if years, but nothing like this trip.

 

Any feedback would be welcome. I'm sure most would say that I should take it easy to be on the safe side. But if people have experienced a similar situation and been fine, I'd like to hear their thoughts.

 

Thanks,

Ricky

Edited March 14, 2013 by Rickpatbrown

[tvashtarkatena]

My experience: my second marathon was 20 minutes faster and my recovery time was cut in half. I ran it 5 seconds per mile faster than my fastest predicted time based on training results by striking up a conversation with a guy who was, well, 5 seconds per mile faster than I (thought I) was for about 20 miles. I also used my arms more for the final 6 hilly miles (the first twenty were relatively flat), which helped me maintain that pace at the end and probably saved my legs a bit. Basically, I relaxed and enjoyed the race more than the first time. I think you'll be just fine.

Edited March 14, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[kevino]

Run your marathon to the fullest - you'll be more likely to remember your marathon time and experience than feeling fatigued on on a climbing trip. Take it easy on your climbing trip. Make your partners carry the beer in their pack.

 

A caveat being, I have no idea what this trip is. What mountain in Maine requires 5-6 days to climb? I would assume that the majority of this time will be spent hiking, so go slow and relaxed. If your climbing partners invited you on this trip the week after a marathon then they should be expecting this.

Edited March 14, 2013 by kevino

[Rickpatbrown]

Thanks guys. I'm gonna give the race my best. I'll listen to my body and bail on my goal time I I'm not feeling it.

 

We're climbing Mt. Katahdin. We will camp at the base and climb for 4 or 5 days doing different routes. It shouldn't be to crazy, but it's totally something new for me. Coupled with the marathon, which is new also, I wanted to make sure I'm not being an idiot.

 

Wish me luck!

 

[ivan]

katahdin has some really cool routes - enjoy, but shit, this time of year, don't you ahve to like walk 20 miles to get near it?

[Rickpatbrown]

I think it's a 14 mile slog in. We're doing the walk in over the course I two days.

 

[pink]

drink chocolate milk

[ivan]

and take bug repellent, just in case mutant black-flies have already hatched

[dave schultz]

seems pretty late for winter activities. Last year at this time it was the epic St Patricks Day at Mt Washington ... then it was rock season.

[matt_warfield]

IMO, you have to prioritize. There are some out there who can hike 10 miles, go rock climbing, then run 10 more miles and then go the pub.

 

Most of us are not like them. A marathon takes a lot out of you. I tried to run a half marathon then go rock climbing the next day and what I wanted to do was sit in the sun.

 

Save your energy for climbing. Think of it this way: a hypothetical 10 mile round trip hike, 5000 feet of elevation gain, and maybe some climbing is the same as a marathon. It just takes longer.

[dfrost]

It really depends on what your highest volume weeks of training leading up to the marathon were and how many back-to-back big efforts you did. If you have quick recovery from your highest milage days (probably 16-20 miles, I'd guess), then you might be all right.

What might be of more importance is your immediate post-race actions--hydration, massage, food--and then wearing compression leggings for the l-o-n-g plane ride. In fact, you may want the compression to assist with recovery until you've hiked in to your camp.

I've worked strategies involving all of the above for endurance events, but have been putting in higher milage at much slower paces--10min miles instead of your 7:40.

[Rickpatbrown]

Well, the deed is done. I PR'd with a 3:21:27. I'm pretty happy with that. It was definitely a challenge. I'm just gonna have to see how this pans out. I feel much better than I did after my first marathon. I'm gonna focus on eating LOTS o fruit and vegetables over the next week and super low impact training just to keep things loose (ie. bike and swim super slow).

 

I know I have to prioritize. Luckily, ice is only for a couple months out here. I'm East Coast.

 

I think I'm gonna be good. I feel pretty good.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

BTW- we were gonna run a half marathon in NYC tomorrow (day after the full marathon -lol). They wouldn't let other people pick up our bibs, though. God had mercy on us

[dfrost]

Word. Nice work!

 

I can't believe you were worried if you'd already signed up for a half the day after... geez... It sounds like you've got the volume of training under your belt to take care of this trip without issue.

 

Have a good time--and make sure to walk around during the flight!

[Rickpatbrown]

Word. Nice work!

 

I can't believe you were worried if you'd already signed up for a half the day after... geez... It sounds like you've got the volume of training under your belt to take care of this trip without issue.

 

Have a good time--and make sure to walk around during the flight!

 

That's the thing. I don't have the volume. That was gonna be an even scarier proposition than what I'm doing now. I was gonna run both races at an easy pace though. I was only running about 40 miles/week at peak of my training. I was biking and swimming too though. That helped my cardio for sure, but not endurance. I think that my endurance was better simply because this was my second marathon cycle. I hope recovery speed has increased due to the multisport training as well.

 

Also, there are no flights involved. Just a 12 hour car trip

[pink]

Are there any marathon runners out there?

 

I'm running my second marathon this weekend and have surprise trip to Maine a week after. I'm conflicted as to how to run the race and make sure that I'm in good shape for climbing. I'm sure if I take it easy during the race, I'll be just fine for climbing. I'm wondering if I can run it hard an still be ok for climbing. We will be on the mountain for 5-6 days.

 

I ran my first marathon last October in 3:27. I was really sore for about 5 days after and minorly sore for about 10 days. I was running shorter distances with acceptable soreness a week after the race.

 

I want to run this marathon in 3:20(3:19:50 is always soo much better, though). I imagine that this will be about the same effort as my first marathon. I would expect a similar recovery as I had in the fall.

 

My concern is that the faster I run the race, the more I would be increasing my risk of injury while climbing. I will be in a semi remote (for the northeast) location. I don't want to put my climbing partners and myself at risk. I also don't want to waste a race.

 

I am pretty inexperienced with climbing. I've only been ice climbing for a year. I've backpacked for 10-15 years. I've been rock climbing for a couple if years, but nothing like this trip.

 

Any feedback would be welcome. I'm sure most would say that I should take it easy to be on the safe side. But if people have experienced a similar situation and been fine, I'd like to hear their thoughts.

 

Thanks,

Ricky

Chestbeat here

[Rickpatbrown]

Chestbeat here

 

Ha! Runners aren't impressed with marathons. I only tell non runners so thy think I'm a stud.

 

Seriously though, I have asked my training partners and they've given me good feedback. Only climbers know exactly the stress associated with climbing.

 

The biggest caveat is that everyone is different. Most advice o. Training and recovery comes from personal experience. It's hard to generalize, but you can get an idea to rule out things that totally not the norm.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Rickpatbrown

[dfrost]

Rick: you DO have the volume of training. The biking and swimming count. Don't buy in to the idea that it's "all about the miles". If you were talking about races of 50 miles or more, then that would be a different story and beyond my experience.

 

I'm sure the trip will be easier for you than you think.

 

 

[Rickpatbrown]

Just to update on my experiment-

 

Everything went well. The 13 mile and 3.5 mile hike in (two days) were strenuous, but I felt strong. We didn't get to climb as much as we wanted, because they got a couple feet of snow a few days before we arrived.

 

My foot hurt the week after the marathon. I wore tennis shoes to work (to the dismay of my bosses) and only went for 1 swim. All muscle soreness was gone by Wednesday or Thursday.

 

BTW- Katahdin was spectacular. I'll definitely be returning.

[glassgowkiss]

The best training for climbing is..... climbing.

[matt_warfield]

The best training for climbing is..... climbing.

 

I agree. Many epic endurance events have happened on the rock and in the alpine by climbers who haven't run a marathon but have done a climbing "marathon" and are happy with that. Prioritize or at least compartmentalize because serious climbing means all batteries need to be charged prior.

Edited April 3, 2013 by matt_warfield

[denalidave]

The best training for climbing is..... climbing.

 

I agree. Many epic endurance events have happened on the rock and in the alpine by climbers who haven't run a marathon but have done a climbing "marathon" and are happy with that. Prioritize or at least compartmentalize because serious climbing means all batteries need to be charged prior.

Although I have yet to run a marathon, I've always felt a lot of the longer climbs with long approaches were at least the equivalent of running a marathon, if not more so... I've wanted to run one but not train for it, just off the couch to see if I am as fit as I think I am. However, each year I move further from 40 and closer to 50, the less confident I am that I could pull it off, unless maybe, I had a beer on a stick dangling in front of me the whole way.

[matt_warfield]

Check climbing.com and Rob Pizem's report on his spring break for the climber's version of "marathon".

 

And again like denalidave says, a big climb is similar to a marathon for many climbers.

Edited April 3, 2013 by matt_warfield

[tvashtarkatena]

Nice job on the marathon!

[TimL]

To add a bit, I´ve found that climbing is a good way to actively rest after training for marathons or long marathon training days. As your body adapts to your training, you´ll find you´ll be able to do more in turns of training volume with running as well as climbing. Many times I´ll do a morning of running, followed by lunch then an afternoon of sport climbing. It´s funny though because my climbing friends don´t get running and my running friends don´t get climbing, but I´m lucky to have two groups of friends that hammer me with solid motivation.

 

With running be careful with the loss of climbing muscle. This year I´m training for an an alpine ultramarathon thats going to be around 74k with 6,500 meters of positive elevation gain and 6.500 meter of elevation loss. I´ll post of TR when I finish the race and with some of the race prep. My problem is with the high training volume and the hours logged running in the mountains, I´ve lost a lot of muscle and weight. On the other hand I´m lighter and that compensates for the lack of strength.

 

With a little bit of planning, you can do both. Everyone has told me I can´t, but so far it has not been a problem. I´ve been climbing for a long time and running for a while as well. Times are just another way of a chest beating for runners as grades are for climbers. Just get out and have fun, that what it´s all about anyways!

Edited April 12, 2013 by TimL

[glassgowkiss]

a big climb is similar to a marathon for many climbers.

I kind of disagree- there is significant difference in energy output per hour. It's much lower then during a marathon, but stretched over much longer period. While running in general can give you a base for alpine climbing, interval training generally gives better results. Just the fact you usually have to carry a loaded pack changes the equation. Also marathon you are using pretty much lower body only, while in climbing it's your legs, core and shoulder/arm. It's also about efficiency of movement, which running doesn't address as far as climbing goes.