Gun Control

[tvashtarkatena]

No, actually I know the guy who grows it. He's a friend who lives several blocks away. And I spent a good chunk of time and energy to ensure, with many other dedicated individuals, pot smoking and non, to make growing it right here in WA a legal and safer alternative. Zero guilt in that department, bucko. Zero.

 

 

[rob]

 

How do you personally reconcile the speculation above with the data below?

 

 

 

 

"Contrary to common perceptions, today both property and violent crimes (with the exception of homicides) are more widespread in Europe than in the US, while the opposite was true thirty years ago. We label this fact as the "reversal of misfortunes". We investigate what accounts for the reversal by studying the causal impact of demographic changes, incarceration, abortion, unemployment and immigration on crime. For this we use time series data (1970-2008) from seven European countries and the U.S. We find that the demographic structure of the population and the incarceration rate are important determinants of crime. Our results suggest that a tougher incarceration policy may be an effective way to contrast crime in Europe. Our analysis does not provide information on how incarceration policy should be made tougher nor does it provide an answer to the question whether a such a policy would also be efficient from a cost-benefit point of view. We leave this to future research"

http://www2.dse.unibo.it/zanella/papers/crime-EP.pdf

 

I'm not sure what question you're asking, but as far as comparing "violent crime" rates, I think it's a very hard thing to do from country to country because countries vary on what types of crime constitute violent crime (some countries county burglaries, some do not), and when they are reports (i.e. some countries only report violent crime convictions, while others report unsolved violent crimes). Comparing statistics is very problematic when there is no standardization in reporting.

 

It sounds like the point you are trying to make is that actually, nothing is wrong. Am I misunderstanding you?

 

Could you rephrase your question?

[denalidave]

No, actually I know the guy who grows it. He's a friend who lives several blocks away. And I spent a good chunk of time and energy to ensure, with many other dedicated individuals, pot smoking and non, to make growing it right here in WA a legal and safer alternative. Zero guilt in that department, bucko. Zero.

 

So, your saying emphatically, that you know exactly where all your pot came from? Every single bud for the past 25 years or however long you been partaking? You have never supported any organized crime with that habit, ever (knowingly or not)???

[tvashtarkatena]

Um...I come from Northern CA. A shortage of locally grown weed isn't exactly the area's biggest problem - just as it isn't in BC bud land up here. The last time I had Mexican weed was probably sometime in high school.

 

You might put a little of this energy into looking at your own booze issue, pal.

 

The only times I've ever seen you you were slurring, sloppy drunk. Maybe I caught you on some bad days....

Edited February 6, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[denalidave]

 

How do you personally reconcile the speculation above with the data below?

 

 

 

 

"Contrary to common perceptions, today both property and violent crimes (with the exception of homicides) are more widespread in Europe than in the US, while the opposite was true thirty years ago. We label this fact as the "reversal of misfortunes". We investigate what accounts for the reversal by studying the causal impact of demographic changes, incarceration, abortion, unemployment and immigration on crime. For this we use time series data (1970-2008) from seven European countries and the U.S. We find that the demographic structure of the population and the incarceration rate are important determinants of crime. Our results suggest that a tougher incarceration policy may be an effective way to contrast crime in Europe. Our analysis does not provide information on how incarceration policy should be made tougher nor does it provide an answer to the question whether a such a policy would also be efficient from a cost-benefit point of view. We leave this to future research"

http://www2.dse.unibo.it/zanella/papers/crime-EP.pdf

 

I'm not sure what question you're asking, but as far as comparing "violent crime" rates, I think it's a very hard thing to do from country to country since countries vary on what types of crime constitute violent, and when they are reports (i.e. some countries only report violent crime convictions, while others report unsolved violent crimes).

 

It sounds like the point you are trying to make is that actually, nothing is wrong. Am I misunderstanding you?

 

Could you rephrase your question?

It's pretty straight forward... What else can we do to STOP these nut jobs from going postal? Getting rid of guns is not the cure all. Tighter gun regulation is a small step in a much larger picture.

[tvashtarkatena]

Um...ban handguns.

 

That's what I get out of the data.

 

Duh.

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Also, J's 'graphs' have proven to be of questionable origin. What was that Koch Brothers website address again?

 

His state by state graph does supports fewer guns = less gun deaths, but again, the source link would be nice for vetting.

 

I'd rather have links to the source so I can determine credibility beyond 'some innernut posted it'.

 

Sources, Jayb?

 

 

Edited February 6, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[denalidave]

Um...I come from Northern CA. A shortage of locally grown weed isn't exactly the area's biggest problem - just as it isn't in BC bud land up here. The last time I had Mexican weed was probably sometime in high school.

 

You might put a little of this energy into looking at your own booze issue, pal.

 

The only times I've ever seen you you were slurring, sloppy drunk. Maybe I caught you on some bad days....

Um no, you saw me completely wasted a day after my life shattering divorce was final. Then one other time at Vantage. I don't recall having much conversation with you then but I was not sloppy drunk. I was quite mellow that last time I saw you. Hell, I was even a bit cordial. Go ahead and change the subject so you can hide behind your fucking ego and bullshit double talk... My weed is manna from heaven pure as the virgin mary. If you ever did drugs, you support the narco drug traffickers just as much as any gun owner is equally to blame for some nut job going postal.

 

Why don't you take a bigger jab at me by belittling my failed marriage or remind me of what a terrible father I am to my kids?

[tvashtarkatena]

Regarding your family issues, those aren't my problems to worry about or comment on. I made a valid point about you teaching your kids how to shoot, which is perpetuating American gun culture, based on a post you made here. Regarding your drunkeness, hey, that's what I observed. I don't really give a shit one way or the other how you deal with your personal problems. Drink up. Whatev.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[Jim]

Jesus f Christ, already

 

Egomania was brought into polemical prominence at the close of the 19th century by Max Nordau, the first critic who perceived the centrality of the concept of egoism for an understanding of Modernism...[with] his wholesale attacks on the ideology of "egomania"'. Nordau distinguished egoism - as 'a lack of amiability....The egoist is quite able to look after himself in life' - from the 'ego-maniac...who does not see things as they are, does not understand the world, and cannot take up a right attitude towards it'. Egomania has also been linked with alcoholism. 'Egomania drives many young alcoholics...alcoholism-created egomania'. A recovering alcoholic may well look back at the past as 'the land of self-loathing, egomania, and decay'.

The danger with the egomaniac is always that underneath the apparent over-confidence and bravado lies a fragile personality, driven by 'grandiose fantasies of boundless success or power or perfect love which cannot be fulfilled.

 

[denalidave]

Regarding your family issues, those aren't my problems to worry about or comment on. I made a valid point about you teaching your kids how to shoot, which is perpetuating American gun culture, based on a post you made here.

I'd rather teach my kids about guns, sex and drugs myself instead letting society do it. Guns are tools, just like a knife, a bat or a car. Any of which can be used for good or bad. I'd rather they know something about the subject instead of sticking my head in the sand and assume good ole merica and our schools will do it all for me.

 

But when your buddy Ivan drinks, admittedly more than the average alcoholic, he's cool and has never been drunk around you. Yeah, whatever. Keep believing only what you want to and you'll always be the smartest guy in the room.

[tvashtarkatena]

No egotism in pretending to know everything about a perfect stranger, eh Jim?

 

Jesus Christ, indeed.

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Jesus f Christ, already

 

Egomania was brought into polemical prominence at the close of the 19th century by Max Nordau, the first critic who perceived the centrality of the concept of egoism for an understanding of Modernism...[with] his wholesale attacks on the ideology of "egomania"'. Nordau distinguished egoism - as 'a lack of amiability....The egoist is quite able to look after himself in life' - from the 'ego-maniac...who does not see things as they are, does not understand the world, and cannot take up a right attitude towards it'. Egomania has also been linked with alcoholism. 'Egomania drives many young alcoholics...alcoholism-created egomania'. A recovering alcoholic may well look back at the past as 'the land of self-loathing, egomania, and decay'.

The danger with the egomaniac is always that underneath the apparent over-confidence and bravado lies a fragile personality, driven by 'grandiose fantasies of boundless success or power or perfect love which cannot be fulfilled.

 

[denalidave]

No egotism in pretending to know everything about a perfect stranger, eh Jim?

 

Jesus Christ, indeed.

 

Perfect stranger? Like nobody has been reading your self congratulatory drivel for the past 5 years or so? You are consistently the most self absorbed egomaniac on this site. Incapable of making a mistake, let alone admitting to one. Sounds like a textbook egomaniac to me.

[tvashtarkatena]

Not sure what my ever congenial buddy Ivan has to do with this discussion. Perhaps you should PM him directly if you have something to say to him. I can say that he doesn't seem to have done anything to warrant any trash talking from you - one of several behaviors from you that made a go/no go decision in establishing any kind of friendship pretty cut and dry, despite our mutual relations.

 

Regarding your family relations - that's obviously your department. You posted about teaching your kids how to shoot, which, by definition, is perpetuating gun culture. Wondering how gun culture happens in America? Well...

 

Past that very specific point - whatev. Again, it's all you. I certainly don't wish you any harm in that regard. However it goes for you, I've got my own peeps to take care of.

 

And the Old Hippy, yours, or KKK's personal opinions regarding the Evil Tvash? Who cares? We don't know each other. The elaborate conjecture doesn't flow the other direction - not very interested. You folks have your unwavering opinions, embellished as needed, my peeps have theirs. I weight them accordingly.

Edited February 6, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[denalidave]

Not sure what my ever congenial buddy Ivan has to do with this discussion. Perhaps you should PM him directly if you have something to say to him.

 

Regarding your family relations - that's obviously your department. You posted about teaching your kids how to shoot, which, by definition, is perpetuating gun culture. Wondering how gun culture happens in America? Well...

 

Past that very specific point - whatev. Again, it's all you.

I only bring up Ivan's name cause he admittedly loves to drink like an Irishman. I've seen him plenty drunk, plenty of times but I recall you stating "I've never seen him sloppy drunk". Just goes to show you that you only see and hear what you want to. That's my only point.

 

As far as the gun culture, that is a pretty broad brush. Kind of like lumping all "climbers" into one specific group. Guns are a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Not all gun owners are the same. A concept someone as smart as you should be able to grasp. I see your point, and it is valid to a degree. But, we are not going to remove all guns from our society so I want to at least teach my kids about them, the risks and dangers. Fuck you if you don't like it.

[tvashtarkatena]

Well, again, you know how to get a hold of Ivan if you've got something you need to say to him.

 

Your family is your business.

[ivan]

i'd like to use this w/ a class of mine - source please?

[ivan]

I only bring up Ivan's name cause he admittedly loves to drink like an Irishman. I've seen him plenty drunk, plenty of times but I recall you stating "I've never seen him sloppy drunk". Just goes to show you that you only see and hear what you want to. That's my only point.

 

hey look, the whole world DOES revolve around me!

 

actually, pretty sure ole'pat never has seen me tie one on that tight, as generally speakign i don't get falling down drunk - i attribute this to all my serious training w/ the burgundy - in fact, in truth, i would say i drink far more like a frenchman than onna dem potato-nigras

 

the drunkest pat might have seen me was this summer, after el cap forced me onto the wagon for the better part of a week, but thankfully then i was surronded at the time by folks who made me look like general fucking montgomery in comparision

[tvashtarkatena]

Just off the top of El Cap.

 

You are forgiven, my son.

 

Look, DD, I certainly don't wish you any personal strife and I'm sure nobody else here does, either. You've pretty much been a tool to me from day 1 - I suppose you've got your reasons, God knows why you'd bother, with all the shit you've got going on.

 

Anyway, you might try just ignoring me, not the KKK/FOX news style of ignoring, I mean actually giving it a rest. You know, posting on pretty much any thread I start anywhere on the board - that kind of thing. I don't care either way, freedumb and all, but you might find there is zero interaction between us after that point - if you want the Evil Tvash out of your innernut life, that state of affairs is at hand.

 

I don't expect the Kakester will ever be able to control himself in that regard, too fixated, but it seems like you could manage it. Channel JayB - the man is unflappable cuz he keeps it in perspective. In the end, I know you're not a raging drunk and you know I'm not a psychopath, so lets mutually cut some of the crap, eh?

 

 

[keenwesh]

The Montana house just introduced HB 215 to make the winchester model 1873 the official rifle of MT.

 

http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2013/billpdf/HB0215.pdf

[denalidave]

Just off the top of El Cap.

 

You are forgiven, my son.

 

Look, DD, I certainly don't wish you any personal strife and I'm sure nobody else here does, either. You've pretty much been a tool to me from day 1 - I suppose you've got your reasons, God knows why you'd bother, with all the shit you've got going on.

 

Anyway, you might try just ignoring me, not the KKK/FOX news style of ignoring, I mean actually giving it a rest. You know, posting on pretty much any thread I start anywhere on the board - that kind of thing. I don't care either way, freedumb and all, but you might find there is zero interaction between us after that point - if you want the Evil Tvash out of your innernut life, that state of affairs is at hand.

 

I don't expect the Kakester will ever be able to control himself in that regard, too fixated, but it seems like you could manage it. Channel JayB - the man is unflappable cuz he keeps it in perspective. In the end, I know you're not a raging drunk and you know I'm not a psychopath, so lets mutually cut some of the crap, eh?

 

Here's where I see it... I first noticed your great pictures and artistic abilities when I wandered in here around 2006. It did not take long for me to notice what an arrogant bully you are online. I could care less but I've just always had this thing about picking a fight with the bully. Your complete lack of any humility whatsoever, combined with your relentless bullying of whoever may disagree with you just feeds my appetite to flick you shit. I actually thought I might find the real Pat a kind, gentler person but he seems to be just as much of an asshole. I mention a comparison that anyone who uses/used drugs is the same as supporting the narco cartels is the same as you blaming anyone who still owns a gun as a "gun nut". Obviously, neither are correct in the real world. What do you do, take the cheap shot about me being drunk a day after I lost my family. Classy. Kicking a man when he's down seems more like a Republican tactic instead of a lefty Dem. Just sayin.

 

BTW, you have NO idea how often I resist the urge to call your BS. More often than not. At least when I am wrong, I will admit it and apologize, something I can't even fathom you are capable of. Based on your holier than though attitude and bully tactics you spew here, anyway. I don't think I'm alone in my opinion of you. I'd certainly enjoy seeing you eat a bit of humble pie but you are too smart to ever make a mistake so we all know that won't happen.

 

Yes, the world revolves around Ivan but at least he is funny and self deprecating enough to keep us all pretty entertained. You guys probably make such a cute couple since you both have ego's the size of Texas. I just like his style of arrogance over yours.

 

How many times have you been banned from this site for your relentless assholidness? Maybe you could take a clue and try not to be such a complete dick. I guess your not really trying as it comes so naturally to you, but you know what I mean.

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Well, bud, you think about me a HELL of a lot more than vice versa. Guess a feller's gotta have something to fill the time.

 

I find Ivan delightfully egoless, generous, and either brave or bent, if in a nihilist sort of way, but you have to get him, I suppose.

 

 

Later.

Edited February 7, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[pink]

Just off the top of El Cap.

 

You are forgiven, my son.

 

Look, DD, I certainly don't wish you any personal strife and I'm sure nobody else here does, either. You've pretty much been a tool to me from day 1 - I suppose you've got your reasons, God knows why you'd bother, with all the shit you've got going on.

 

Anyway, you might try just ignoring me, not the KKK/FOX news style of ignoring, I mean actually giving it a rest. You know, posting on pretty much any thread I start anywhere on the board - that kind of thing. I don't care either way, freedumb and all, but you might find there is zero interaction between us after that point - if you want the Evil Tvash out of your innernut life, that state of affairs is at hand.

 

I don't expect the Kakester will ever be able to control himself in that regard, too fixated, but it seems like you could manage it. Channel JayB - the man is unflappable cuz he keeps it in perspective. In the end, I know you're not a raging drunk and you know I'm not a psychopath, so lets mutually cut some of the crap, eh?

 

Here's where I see it... I first noticed your great pictures and artistic abilities when I wandered in here around 2006. It did not take long for me to notice what an arrogant bully you are online. I could care less but I've just always had this thing about picking a fight with the bully. Your complete lack of any humility whatsoever, combined with your relentless bullying of whoever may disagree with you just feeds my appetite to flick you shit. I actually thought I might find the real Pat a kind, gentler person but he seems to be just as much of an asshole. I mention a comparison that anyone who uses/used drugs is the same as supporting the narco cartels is the same as you blaming anyone who still owns a gun as a "gun nut". Obviously, neither are correct in the real world. What do you do, take the cheap shot about me being drunk a day after I lost my family. Classy. Kicking a man when he's down, seems more like a Republican tactic instead of a lefty Dem. Just sayin.

 

BTW, you have NO idea how often I resist the urge to call your BS. More often than not. At least when I am wrong, I will admit it and apologize, something I can't even fathom you are capable of. Based on your holier than though attitude and bully tactics you spew here, anyway. I don't think I'm alone in my opinion of you. I'd certainly enjoy seeing you eat a bit of humble pie but you are too smart to ever make a mistake so we all know that won't happen.

 

Yes, the world revolves around Ivan but at least he is funny and self deprecating enough to keep us all pretty entertained. You guys probably make such a cute couple since you both have ego's the size of Texas. I just like his style of arrogance over yours.

 

How many times have you been banned from this site for your relentless assholidness? Maybe you could take a clue and try not to be such a complete dick. I guess your not really trying as it comes so naturally to you, but you know what I mean.

 

 

you pretty much hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head on that one mister... dave, you're a cool dude!

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Just off the top of El Cap.

 

You are forgiven, my son.

 

Look, DD, I certainly don't wish you any personal strife and I'm sure nobody else here does, either. You've pretty much been a tool to me from day 1 - I suppose you've got your reasons, God knows why you'd bother, with all the shit you've got going on.

 

Anyway, you might try just ignoring me, not the KKK/FOX news style of ignoring, I mean actually giving it a rest. You know, posting on pretty much any thread I start anywhere on the board - that kind of thing. I don't care either way, freedumb and all, but you might find there is zero interaction between us after that point - if you want the Evil Tvash out of your innernut life, that state of affairs is at hand.

 

I don't expect the Kakester will ever be able to control himself in that regard, too fixated, but it seems like you could manage it. Channel JayB - the man is unflappable cuz he keeps it in perspective. In the end, I know you're not a raging drunk and you know I'm not a psychopath, so lets mutually cut some of the crap, eh?

 

Here's where I see it... I first noticed your great pictures and artistic abilities when I wandered in here around 2006. It did not take long for me to notice what an arrogant bully you are online. I could care less but I've just always had this thing about picking a fight with the bully. Your complete lack of any humility whatsoever, combined with your relentless bullying of whoever may disagree with you just feeds my appetite to flick you shit. I actually thought I might find the real Pat a kind, gentler person but he seems to be just as much of an asshole. I mention a comparison that anyone who uses/used drugs is the same as supporting the narco cartels is the same as you blaming anyone who still owns a gun as a "gun nut". Obviously, neither are correct in the real world. What do you do, take the cheap shot about me being drunk a day after I lost my family. Classy. Kicking a man when he's down, seems more like a Republican tactic instead of a lefty Dem. Just sayin.

 

BTW, you have NO idea how often I resist the urge to call your BS. More often than not. At least when I am wrong, I will admit it and apologize, something I can't even fathom you are capable of. Based on your holier than though attitude and bully tactics you spew here, anyway. I don't think I'm alone in my opinion of you. I'd certainly enjoy seeing you eat a bit of humble pie but you are too smart to ever make a mistake so we all know that won't happen.

 

Yes, the world revolves around Ivan but at least he is funny and self deprecating enough to keep us all pretty entertained. You guys probably make such a cute couple since you both have ego's the size of Texas. I just like his style of arrogance over yours.

 

How many times have you been banned from this site for your relentless assholidness? Maybe you could take a clue and try not to be such a complete dick. I guess your not really trying as it comes so naturally to you, but you know what I mean.

 

 

you pretty much hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head on that one mister... dave, you're a cool dude!