Gun Control

[prole]

I never said we don't need gun laws, hell we have close to 20,000 state and federal gun laws on the books right now. How about stiffer penalties for people who use guns in crimes or people who are caught with guns get stiffer sentences instead of a slap on the wrist.

 

More cops, more prisons, bigger, more bloated criminal justice system... Mm, think I'll take the fewer guns option, thanks tho!

[yellowlab03]

Start providing security for them and we wouldn't need to.

 

Those statistics are probably in the same place as where it shows having as much alcohol in the US is a good thing.

 

from the googles: http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/crime/8-horrible-crimes-stopped-by-legal-gun-owners.html

[glassgowkiss]

OMG we should just make a law against killing people, that way we just cover all of our bases with one law, then no one would get killed.

 

I never said we don't need gun laws, hell we have close to 20,000 state and federal gun laws on the books right now. How about stiffer penalties for people who use guns in crimes or people who are caught with guns get stiffer sentences instead of a slap on the wrist. How about the media doesn't sensationalize these crimes for ratings spurring copy cat incidents?

 

I know how you hoplophobes don't like facts though so I won't post those up again.

 

And this shows utter hypocrisy of teabagggers. How are you supposed to enforce the laws and cut budgets? It doesn't add up. Give you an example: in Whatcom County a parole officer has 50+ active cases and 24 hours a week to deal with them. It is due to budgetary cuts, all parole officers are furloughed 2 days a week.

[yellowlab03]

Yes, because making guns illegal isn't going to cost a fortune? Who is going to go get them? The Military? The Police? You?

 

 

[prole]

Start providing security for them and we wouldn't need to.

 

Providing security for whom?

 

from the googles: http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/crime/8-horrible-crimes-stopped-by-legal-gun-owners.html

 

7 out of 8 of these "horrible crimes" involved armed perpetrators. How is this an argument for the benefits of a society awash in guns?

[glassgowkiss]

Start providing security for them and we wouldn't need to.

 

Those statistics are probably in the same place as where it shows having as much alcohol in the US is a good thing.

 

from the googles: http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/crime/8-horrible-crimes-stopped-by-legal-gun-owners.html

You don't even see the stupidity of your own argument: a marine with gun, shooting on a parking lot stopped by an armed man- wow!!! like the gun was NOT an problem in a first place? fucking great logic!

[yellowlab03]

Who said I was part of the teaparty?

 

You do know that during budget cuts the first place they start cutting is the first responders like the Police and Fire departments?

[yellowlab03]

No, I don't see it. I see a bunch of pussies scared of inanimate objects.

[prole]

No, I don't see it. I see a bunch of pussies scared of inanimate objects.

 

You're done. Buh-bye.

 

[yellowlab03]

Meh, oh well. Seriously though, do you guys get this scared about driving at night or even leaving your apartments? I haven't heard for a big push for a zero tolerance policy for alcohol and driving or lower speed limits. I guess that is just your hypocrisy shining through.

[prole]

Meh, oh well. Seriously though, do you guys get this scared about driving at night or even leaving your apartments?

 

I'm not the one who needs a gun to "defend" himself.

[yellowlab03]

No, I don't see it. I see a bunch of pussies scared of inanimate objects.

 

You're done. Buh-bye.

 

 

So let me get this straight...

Of course Yellowlabia, there's always this option!

Is cool.

But me calling you a pussy (same thing) and now it is "You're done. Buh-bye" Hmmm... more hypocrisy. What next, you going to take your ball and go home?

[prole]

Okay, let me help you out a bit here. While "you're a pussy" might carry weight as some kind of argument in your barracks or locker room, out in the real world it means you've essentially given up.

[yellowlab03]

Meh, oh well. Seriously though, do you guys get this scared about driving at night or even leaving your apartments?

 

I'm not the one who needs a gun to "defend" himself.

 

When my family and I moved from GA to WA in 2008. We stopped in SLC, Utah at a Motel 6 because it was the only place that would allow dogs. We pulled in around 0200 in two vehicles. My then 5 y/o and 9 month old were in my truck sleeping so the wife went in to get our room. While she was in the office, I watched two drug deals go down, and a dude with a hooker pull in and walk to her? room. Well, I wasn't going to stay there, so when the wife walked back out I told her to go get our money back and explained what I had observed. About that time old boy with the hooker comes sprinting out of the room with half dressed hooker in hot pursuit. Guy slides into his car and takes off whilst hooker is beating on his window. All the while, a fat "security guard" with a MAG LIGHT just watches. so wife agrees and goes back in to get our money back. As my wife cleared between the two vehicles and is about 5 yards from them, a big black dude walked past her watching her over his shoulder. As soon as she was inside the office he turned around and made his way toward our cars. When he got to the back of the vehicles between her car and mine, he saw me. I had backed up to the front of the vehicles and now in the light, with my hand on my 1911 but still holstered. The dude stopped dead in his tracks, raised his hands toward me and said, "Wooa dude it's cool, it's cool." He slowly backed up, made a right face and booked it as fast as he could away.

 

That is the only time I have ever possibly needed my gun.

 

When I lived in VA, I got pulled over by a VA State Trooper for speeding. In VA, when you are a CCW holder you have to announce that you are a CCW holder even if you aren't carrying. Well, I wasn't carrying that day because I was going hunting. So, trooper walks up to the truck, I had all of my paperwork out, hands on the steering wheel and vehicle off. Guy asked the normal "why are you going so fast" question and asked for my lic, reg and insurance. I gave it to him, and then told him that I was a CCW holder, but wasn't carrying that day. That is when things got a little weird. Trooper handed me my paperwork back, then proceeded to chew my ass up one side and down the other for not carrying my pistol. "It is your civic duty to carry, you went through the process, carry! I depend on people like you to help me if some crack head is handing me my ass on the side of the road and my back up isn't close." Then he told me to slow down.

 

I would highly suggest you go to your local PD and ask to go on a few ride alongs. I went on 4 or 5 in VA, in the county I was a volunteer fire fighter in. I also went on one in PG county in Maryland

 

I might not ever truly NEED my pistol, but if I ever do I will have it and I will use it to defend myself, my family or others. And if that causes me to receive ridicule from a bunch of leftist nutjob hoplophobes then so be it. But, I will throw a fucking fit (and am) when those people are actively trying to take a tool from me that aids me in defending myself and my family if the day ever comes. I see it no differently than carrying crevasse rescue gear or avalanche transceivers *just in case*.

[yellowlab03]

Okay, let me help you out a bit here. While "you're a pussy" might carry weight as some kind of argument in your barracks or locker room, out in the real world it means you've essentially given up.

 

Is this real world the one where you make a law and POOF all things are great and everyone rides unicorns?

[prole]

Meh, oh well. Seriously though, do you guys get this scared about driving at night or even leaving your apartments?

 

I'm not the one who needs a gun to "defend" himself.

 

When my family and I moved from GA to WA in 2008. We stopped in SLC, Utah at a Motel 6 because it was the only place that would allow dogs. We pulled in around 0200 in two vehicles. My then 5 y/o and 9 month old were in my truck sleeping so the wife went in to get our room. While she was in the office, I watched two drug deals go down, and a dude with a hooker pull in and walk to her? room. Well, I wasn't going to stay there, so when the wife walked back out I told her to go get our money back and explained what I had observed. About that time old boy with the hooker comes sprinting out of the room with half dressed hooker in hot pursuit. Guy slides into his car and takes off whilst hooker is beating on his window. All the while, a fat "security guard" with a MAG LIGHT just watches. so wife agrees and goes back in to get our money back. As my wife cleared between the two vehicles and is about 5 yards from them, a big black dude walked past her watching her over his shoulder. As soon as she was inside the office he turned around and made his way toward our cars. When he got to the back of the vehicles between her car and mine, he saw me. I had backed up to the front of the vehicles and now in the light, with my hand on my 1911 but still holstered. The dude stopped dead in his tracks, raised his hands toward me and said, "Wooa dude it's cool, it's cool." He slowly backed up, made a right face and booked it as fast as he could away.

 

That is the only time I have ever possibly needed my gun.

 

When I lived in VA, I got pulled over by a VA State Trooper for speeding. In VA, when you are a CCW holder you have to announce that you are a CCW holder even if you aren't carrying. Well, I wasn't carrying that day because I was going hunting. So, trooper walks up to the truck, I had all of my paperwork out, hands on the steering wheel and vehicle off. Guy asked the normal "why are you going so fast" question and asked for my lic, reg and insurance. I gave it to him, and then told him that I was a CCW holder, but wasn't carrying that day. That is when things got a little weird. Trooper handed me my paperwork back, then proceeded to chew my ass up one side and down the other for not carrying my pistol. "It is your civic duty to carry, you went through the process, carry! I depend on people like you to help me if some crack head is handing me my ass on the side of the road and my back up isn't close." Then he told me to slow down.

 

I would highly suggest you go to your local PD and ask to go on a few ride alongs. I went on 4 or 5 in VA, in the county I was a volunteer fire fighter in. I also went on one in PG county in Maryland

 

I might not ever truly NEED my pistol, but if I ever do I will have it and I will use it to defend myself, my family or others. And if that causes me to receive ridicule from a bunch of leftist nutjob hoplophobes then so be it. But, I will throw a fucking fit (and am) when those people are actively trying to take a tool from me that aids me in defending myself and my family if the day ever comes. I see it no differently than carrying crevasse rescue gear or avalanche transceivers *just in case*.

 

Except statistically speaking your gun is more likely to be used by your kid, on your wife, or on yourself than it is to be used in your defense. Your "just in case" scenario is putting others at risk.

And not to sound like a prick, but I live in a working class area of LA, not some bumfuck county in Virginia. If I don't need a gun, you sure as hell don't.

[rob]

 

I never said we don't need gun laws, hell we have close to 20,000 state and federal gun laws on the books right now. How about stiffer penalties for people who use guns in crimes or people who are caught with guns get stiffer sentences instead of a slap on the wrist.

 

Sounds good to me. Do you also support measures to make it easier to enforce those existing laws, for example mandatory background checks? Or do you think there is a good reason to allow gun sales under overpasses, no questions asked? I imagine you'd also support a proper registry of gun ownership, to catch people selling them illegally. Right? Or at least, you'd propose your own solution for keeping guns out of the wrong hands? I've asked you before for your solution but you've never answered me.

 

Only a criminal would be against these things, yes?

 

Also, you keep mentioning "making guns illegal" but nobody is actually proposing that, so I'm not sure why you're outraged about a conflict that doesn't even exist. Your right to own guns is not in danger, only a bombast would make such a claim -- with the exception of the proposed assault rifle and high-capacity magazine ban, which is a legitimate gripe imo. If the NRA were a savvy political organization that was looking out for you rather than the corporate gun lobby, they would embrace background checks and systems to prevent the illegal and irresponsible ownership of guns -- I bet they could receive concessions on the "assault rifle" issue in exchange for that organizations support of rational gun reform, but unfortunately the NRA has positioned itself on the extreme end of the topic and has completely lost legitimacy, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Insisting that my viewpoint is just the result of an irrational fear of an inanimate object? That's just childish. Of course, you've already demonstrated that you are completely unwilling to compromise your (in my view) extreme stance on gun control, so I'm sure this entire missive will be completely lost on you.

 

Cheers, though!

 

 

[prole]

Crack heads and big black dudes. They everywhere!!

[yellowlab03]

Prole, Statistically speaking you have a higher chance of being killed in a car crash than you do by being killed by a gun so lets get rid of those too. Or at least make them so hard to obtain that only professional drivers can have them. Not to mention the pollution they put off and their dependence on fossil fuels.

 

Rob, I have had to do a back ground check on every single gun I own, minus one. A Remington 870 Wingmaster I bought from my Grandad when I was 14. The "gunshow" loophole doesn't exist, even at gun shows you have to have a back ground check to purchase a firearm. Currently there are not many states that have a law against private party sales requiring a back ground check. California is the only state I know of actually. With that said, if they institute a back ground check for all gun sales that would include you selling a family heirloom to your son, or you selling a gun to your dad, brother, sister you name it. How would you feel about that? "Hey dad I'll sell you this single shot .22 I have, but have you ever been convicted of a felony? No, cool, sign here and let me fax this to the FBI to make sure you are on the up and up." Do I think that that would do anything to prevent crime? Not really. Criminals aren't really getting their guns from guys like me and you selling to them, they are getting stolen guns. Gangs are targeting police vehicles and homes specifically to get their weapons and body armor, would you propose that they have to turn in their weapons and equipment at their stations after each shift? Would you consider them to be trustworthy enough to keep this type of equipment in their homes?

 

To answer your question, I don't have a solution other than to increase penalties for those that use guns in crimes and for those that are caught with guns that shouldn't have them. As far as registering guns, not 100% clear on that. You fill out a form 4473 with the ATF and the FBI does a back ground check. How long the dealer keeps that form varies state to state. Wa is something like 20 years.

 

As far as me backing down about how I feel about this? Why should I? It is a RIGHT guaranteed to us by our Constitution no different than our freedom of speech so some religious/left wing/right wing asshole can spout off stupidity. I would be a coward if I did cave in, and that shit just isn't in my genes. I don't pretend to believe that any of you are going to start seeing things my way either though so basically we are just bickering on the internet for entertainment.

[yellowlab03]

Crack heads and big black dudes. They everywhere!!

 

Funny, in PG county in Maryland it is the fucking GHETTO! Right across the Potomac in Northern Va though, it is super rich, nice area full of McMansions. Va, open carry laws, gun friendly, shall issue for CCW. Md and guns? Good luck.

 

typical for areas I have lived in:

Fayetteville, NC, black dudes, gold teef

Loudoun county VA, soccer moms putting on lipstick in traffic

Atlanta, GA, Black dudes, gold teef

Dahlonega, GA, white dudes, no teef

Modesto, CA Mexican dudes, MS 13

I-5 corridor through Oregon, hippys? what the fuck are those dudes with guitars and backpacks begging for money or rides?

Olympia, WA street kids begging for money wearing arc'tryx

Yelm, WA skinny white dudes no teeth.

Edited February 3, 2013 by yellowlab03

[Choada_Boy]

I am going to get a gun so I can get myself out of speeding tickets. Right YellowLAAAAAABEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA?????????

 

Ever watch that "Alaska State Troopers" (a.k.a. "Most Fucked Up State In America") show? Your logic put to work. Cops don't like people with guns. They scare them.

 

 

[prole]

Prole, Statistically speaking you have a higher chance of being killed in a car crash than you do by being killed by a gun.

 

In addition, you've lived in a bunch of places it looks like might want to describe as dangerous shitholes yet never had to use your gun in defense. Why do you need to carry a concealed weapon again?

[yellowlab03]

The same reason I have a spare tire (which I have never needed) just in case.

[matt_warfield]

I can't resist. I appreciate both sides. Many will never have to use their gun for self defense but....Long story short, protect any gun from children and perps, know when to use it, use it well, and hope to hell you never have to.

 

But I will also agree with prole that Pac hwy S. vs. Bellevue changes things. Places you are in an people you are around are the biggest risk.

Edited February 3, 2013 by matt_warfield

[prole]

I get the feeling that many types just like that little extra boost of confidence they need to act like the belligerent assholes they wouldn't have the guts to be otherwise. The self-styled "protector" persona gives it just the right sheen of legitimacy.