layton Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 You could also clip a screamer between yourself and the end of the rope if you expect to be on a series of questionable placements. The cost of replacing it might keep you from falling in the first place! The force generate on the questionable gear will be far beyond the force at your tie-in point, making that useless. In other words, if that screamer ripped, then the force on the piece you fell on would be huge and would probably hold concidering those forces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Dean Potter on the 5.13 in Utah: he couldn't screw around with pro and just ran it out and took some big falls in the process. Twilight Zone in Yosemite before big cams. Realization with Sharma with huge falls because clipping takes energy. There are many times when gear to slow you down means no gear at all at certain points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 might be wrong but having a screamer on the tie in would limit the force on the questionable piece, but not as much as having it on the questionable piece. if the downward force vector is limited to whatever the screamer limits it to, say 3KN, then the force up from the belayer would be around 3KN also. (assuming a frictionless biner) So the questionable piece feels a 6KN force. Obviously the screamer would be best on the piece and not the harness. But if the applied force on the piece is 8 KN and it would hold 6kn, then it would theoretically hold with a screamer on the harness. So it would do some good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 not if the screamer doesn't activate on the harness, which in your scenario gene, I don't think it would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 not if the screamer doesn't activate on the harness, which in your scenario gene, I don't think it would. from the yates website, it says the screamers start activating at 2KN and keep it down to 3 or 4 KN. How much force do you think your questionable pieces are capable of? BTW I am not saying it is a good idea to use it between the rope and the harness. Not MY scenario. But it does look like it would keep the peak forces down to 6 or 8 KN and start to limit the force at 4KN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 oh, I thought they activated at more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 The screamer on the harness sounds odd, but it will increase the stopping time and lengthen the distance over which the stopping force is applied, which reduce the force transmitted to the holding piece. If you have only one screamer, are looking at a series of marginal placements ahead, and don't know where you might fall, this approach might be worth considering. Surely someone must have thought of this before. I bet the main reason people don't consider it is the increased liklihood that you'll rip the screamer and be out the cost to replace it. Climbers will do amazing things to save a few bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Climbers will also do amazing things to avoid too much thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZimZam Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 i think the only qualified response would be someone with a PhD in physics...sure we got one here somewhere? I'd ask skykilo but he majored in magic They're all working on more important shit. “Investing is increasingly becoming dominated by physicists, mathematicians, electrical engineers, and programmers,” says Adrian Cooper, founder and president of Wall Street Analytics (Palo Alto, CA), where roughly one-third of the employees are Ph.D. physicists. Peter Carr, who heads the Equity Derivatives Research Group at Bank of America Securities (New York, NY), recalls that all of his interviewers for his first position at Morgan Stanley were physicists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Same thing goes for, say, an unequalized anchor - like a horizontal clove hitched anchor. If piece one fails at, let's just say 5kN, and piece two and three are equally shitty, will your anchor rip? LINKAGE ""The team was leading with two 9mm ropes, and both climbers were properly tied to both ropes. Dunwiddie was equipped as leader, with each of the two ropes passing through Eldridge's belay device (an ATC). About 25 feet of each lead rope separated the two climbers; no lead protection was found on either rope. Their anchor-which appears to have pulled in its entirety during the accident-consisted of the following. One 3/8-inch Alien and one #4 Black Diamond Stopper were clove-hitched together to one of the lead ropes approximately three feet from Eldridge's tie-in point. Two double-stem Camalots, .5 and .75, were each independently clove-hitched about a foot and a half apart on the other lead rope with 15 inches separating the lower piece from Eldridge's tie-in point. There was no evidence that bolts or other fixed protection were involved in the anchor. All of the anchor pieces were severely damaged, though it is impossible to know whether the damage occurred when they were pulled out or during the fall and final impact. Nevertheless, the two Camalots were each bent in a similar way suggestive of a severe downward force after being placed in a vertical crack."" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) It takes a B.S. or less to make reliable climbing gear and inform the public about its use. It takes an experienced climber or guide to tell you how to use the gear. This knowledge and experience is not taught in college. Most Ph.D. climbers are just out climbing. Edited November 8, 2012 by matt_warfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wetslide Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Most Ph.D. climbers are just out climbing. Truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Most Ph.D. climbers are just out climbing. Truth. And most inexperienced climbers post smug know-it-all responses to make themselves feel superior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 And in 7199 posts, I am sure you always have been the picture of knowledge, experience, composure, and good judgment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 And in 7199 posts, I am sure you always have been the picture of knowledge, experience, composure, and good judgment. Mikey (Layton) has gots lots of knowledge, experience composure but good judgement only 90% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) I understand. Being a human being can be a bitch. I'm one too. Edited November 9, 2012 by matt_warfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 And in 7199 posts, I am sure you always have been the picture of knowledge, experience, composure, and good judgment. Mikey (Layton) has gots lots of knowledge, experience composure but good judgement only 90% of the time. I disagree, as there are 7199 reasons (now 7200) why I have poor judgement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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