max Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 The Gallatin National Forest has released a Benchmark Travel Management Plan that would seriously impact access to the ice climbing in Hyalite Canyon just South of Bozeman, Montana. The benchmark plan would result in the road being plowed to the Langhor Campground at which point a gate would block the road. Beyond the gate the remainder of the road would be groomed for snowmobiles and skiers. If implemented, this plan would force ice climbers to reach the climbs by either snowmobile or by skiing a minimum of 8 miles one-way [to climb Genesis I-the closest climb-would involve 4 to 6 hours of skiing]. The process is still very young, and the Forest Service seems willing and ready to listen to public input. It seems that the Forest Service is not aware of how large a user group the ice climbers are or how important Hyalite is to ice climbing in the Northern Rockies. Therefore it is important to realize that the sooner we all contact the Forest Service the more likely they are to amend the plan and include access to the ice climbs. The first public comment period ends Friday, November 22, 2002. If you are "from out of town/state/region", the important message to convey in your comments is that Hyalite Canyon is nationally and internationally know for the quality and quantity of ice climbs. Please also inform the Forest Service if you have ever climbed ice in Hyalite...how many times and when. If you have not climbed in Hyalite, stress that you plan to or would like to be able to in the future, and therefore, continued access to the climbs is critical. Below are some important points to include in your written comments: 1. Indicate how many times you went ice climbing up in Hyalite last Winter. These "user days" are how the Forest Service quantifies a specific use of Forest lands. 2. Stress that Hyalite Canyon is the only ice climbing area within 150 miles of Bozeman. Therefore, it is imperative that the Forest Service preserve the access to the ice climbs and this important group of public land users. 3. Point out that snowmobiling and skiing are valid recreational activities, but they can be practiced in many places where waterfall ice climbing is unavailable. In Hyalite, Langhor and Moser Creek could still be reserved for cross-country skiing. Other areas conducive to non-motorized use, and particularly cross-country skiing, include Brackett Creek, Sourdough/Bozeman Creek, and Bear Canyon. These are three geographically different areas provide easy access from Bozeman and feature topography that lends itself to cross-country skiing. It seems that the Benchmark Travel Plan provides plenty of other options for motorized, specifically snowmobile, winter use. 4. Suggest that an alternative to the existing Benchmark Plan would be to plow the road to Hyalite Reservoir and clear out the Blackmore Parking Area as a winter turnaround/parking area. Then allow Forest users to continue to drive up the road as long as conditions allowed, similar to the current situation. The reservoir could provide a convenient place to "dispose" of the plowed snow that would ultimately melt and contribute to the water supply during the Spring and Summer. To review the Travel Plan visit http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/gallatin/projects/travel_planning/index.shtml WRITE: [Must be postmarked by Friday, November 22] Gallatin National Forest Attn: Steve Christiansen PO Box 131 Bozeman, MT 59771 E-MAIL: mailroom_r1_gallatin@fs.fed.us Put "Travel Plan Comments" in subject line ON-LINE COMMENT FORM:http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/gallatin/projects/travel_planning/html/form_comments_gnf.htm l Thanks for your attention and activism. Please feel free to contact us with any questions. Barrel Mountaineering 240 East Main Street Bozeman MT 59715 406.582.1335 ph 406.582.1302 fx http://www.barrelmountaineering.com [ 11-11-2002, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: max ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindude Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 This forum is where the topic belongs...but was originally posted a coupla weeks ago on the Climber's Board: http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003251 Regardless, climbers: if you haven't written the Gallatin Forest folks yet, DO IT NOW. Put your money where your mouth/brain/fingers are; it's easier even than chewing on HC or spewing forth spray. Save Hyalite Canyon access! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal_Gravity Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 This is a truly important issue. Hyalite is arguably the best ice climbing area in the lower 48. It is imperative that it stay open. Please help the climbers of the area keep their local area open and help secure the the future of your ability to climb there. It is absolutely worth the effort. Thanks in advance - TG [ 11-18-2002, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 I've written. Took a couple of minutes. BTW, the 6th Annual Bozeman Ice Festival is next weekend which is just after the closing date for comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal_Gravity Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escaladora Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 As many of you know, and many of us have experienced - it has been an incredible, early ice season in Hyalite. Low snow, cold nights and consistent freeze/thaw cycles have created great ice and access for many of the classic climbs. Access. That's something that may be all but shut down, in the winter of 2004, if we don't voice our concerns, desires and opinions - NOW. Currently, the National Forest Service is reviewing and rewriting the Benchmark Use Plan for the Gallatin National Forest (where Hyalite Canyon is located). The current plan, yes...it's already, tentatively written this way, is to gate the Hyalite Canyon road at the Langhor Campground. What does this mean, to climbers? Currently the road is open, all the way, to the Grotto Falls parking area(access for the Genesis and Mummy climbs, Cleos, Twin, Dribbles, Hangover, Greensleeves, No Name wall, Winterdance etc.)and to the Emerald Lake parking area (access for Palisade and the Sceptre, Alpha & Omega,Horsetail and all of the Flanders climbs etc.). The road is not plowed, however with the number of climbers, hikers/snowshoers and cross-country skiiers driving up the canyon, the road has passable, packed-down ruts. Yes, Hyalite "shuts down" by mid-January with the accumulation of snow but it is still possible to drive to the Blackmoor parking area (at the reservoir) and ski in from there. With the gate installed at Langhor, climbers (without a snowmobile) will have to ski in, approximately 4-6 hours one-way to access the G1 (lower Genesis) area. With an additional 1-3 hours to access many of the climbs above G1, you can see how this will essentially shut down the ice climbing in Hyalite. With the, very popular, Barrel Ice Festival this weekend many of you may be climbing on the fantastic Hyalite ice. Please, even if you are not from the Bozeman area take the time to save one of the premier ice climbing areas in North America. How to do this? The public comment period ends this coming FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 22. Write a letter. Send an e-mail comment. If you are in Bozeman for the festival, stop by the Forest Service Office. If you write a letter or an e-mail, keep it positive. Please, no ranting, raving or general spewing. This does not help. Yes, it may help you to vent but the U.S. Forest Service simply does not know the numbers of ice climbers who visit the region. That is exactly what needs to be communicated. Write a hand-written letter. These are given much more weight than a signed form letter. Let the Forest Service know how many days you have used the Hyalite area for ice climbing. Let them know how many days you plan to climb, especially if travelling from out of the area. These user days are what are taken into account when writing the plan. The concern is not to keep snowmobiles and cross-country skiiers away from the area, but to show that there are many, many options for those other uses and Hyalite is the only area for ice climbing. There is no additional cost to the Forest Service, we are not asking for the road to be plowed - just not gated. Letters simply need to be post-marked by November 22nd. Take the ten minutes, do it now, write your letter. Write to: Steve Christiansen P.O. Box 131 Bozeman, MT 59771 e-mail to: mailroom_rl_gallatin@fs.fed.us Thanks...come climb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal_Gravity Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Come on people; do it. Let the others know when you have sent a note to the forest circus by saying so on this thread. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 sent it on the first day it was posted here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Lambone: sent it on the first day it was posted here... Me too. One day I hope to do an ice road trip down that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Terminal Gravity: Come on people; do it. Let the others know when you have sent a note to the forest circus by saying so on this thread. Thanks I sent two just to be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escaladora Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Alright, annoying reminder for the day...the deadline is TOMORROW. Please, write a letter - hell, write a post card, send an e-mail (great for all of you who can't turn away from your monitor), call the Gallatin National Forest Ranger office, in Bozeman. Just let your voice be heard. And again...come climbing - it's phenomenal ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 In short, if this plan happens access to the canyon will be closed for anyone who does not own a snowmobile, or doesn't want to ski 10miles in from Langhor campground. That includes most locals and visitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 quote: Originally posted by max: 2. Stress that Hyalite Canyon is the only ice climbing area within 150 miles of Bozeman. Therefore, it is imperative that the Forest Service preserve the access to the ice climbs and this important group of public land users. That is not true. It would be sweet if they plowed up to the resivior though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escaladora Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Here it is...once again. If you need something to inspire you (or perhaps, just drool over) - check out montanaice.com. Take a look at the Hyalite section to see what will be out of reach. Lambone - the road doesn't really need to be plowed to the reservoir, it isn't currently. Although, with recent conversations with the Forest Service, there is a prospective plan to plow it to the dam but with a user fee. That will be a slippery slope (pardon the pun) and isn't paramount. (Yes...they are receiving all of the letters and hearing the ice climbing community loud and clear). Again, please keep it positive - if you write. WRITE TODAY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Escaladora: Lambone - the road doesn't really need to be plowed to the reservoir, it isn't currently. WRITE TODAY! Escaladora, Yeah, it isn't plowed currently. But it once was. I forget when, I think back in the 80's for a season or two, heard about it from an older local. But I tink it would be great for the whole town if it was plowed to the resivoir. Then acess to all recreation in the canyon would not be limited to those with high clearence vehicles or snowmobiles...i.e. college bums with old beat up Subarus. Sure there would be more users in Hyalite. But I think there is room... Enjoy the ice, see ya in December! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdietsch Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 deadline to post comments is TODAY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTnative Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 I can't believe this, I don't work for the FS nor do I think they are the sharpest knives in the drawer, but... It is my understanding that they are not forbidding people to ice climb in the area, just to gate the road, sooooo what is the problem? ...to see someone who lives here thinking that the road closure is a bad thing-SHAME ON YOU! it seems to me that you all are a bunch of PUSSIES: If implemented, this plan would force ice climbers to reach the climbs by either snowmobile or by skiing a minimum of 8 miles one-way [to climb Genesis I-the closest climb-would involve 4 to 6 hours of skiing]. Poor baby...Is it really so hard to ski or snowshoe in to go climb? You even have the option of snowmobiling in if you can't hack the approach. The road is steep but NOT that steep...hell, that is part of the fun!! In short, if this plan happens access to the canyon will be closed for anyone who does not own a snowmobile, or doesn't want to ski 10miles in from Langhor campground. That includes most locals and visitors. I am not sure how things are out in the PNW but I thought that having less people was a good thing??!!?? Why don't you just camp out for a few days, you would probably be the only ones out there! In my opinion this closure weeds out the weaklings...Only old-fashioned hardcore climbers need apply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Try skiing 4-6 hrs one way with ice gear on your back when there is only 9 hours of light, and then get back to me and tell me you had fun. I think the real issue is that they are trying to exclude one user group for the benfit of another; when the skiiers and sledders could go elsewhere, the ice climbers have limited options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Oh yeah Montana You are sooooo Tough Isn't there a saying that goes something about the men being men and the sheep being scared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 MTNative does have a point...sort of. Not all climbers are against the plan. In fact my good friend Tony, who lives in Bozeman, is all for it. We can remember times, only a few years ago, when you'd only see 5-10 cars in the Hyalite parking lot on a weekend. This last weekend there were 8 cars by 7:30am...and more than 20 when we left at 1pm. I don't live there anymore, so it doesn't matter much to me...but my partner is tiered of racing the crowds. He knows that the plan will cut the number of climbers in half, at least. Then again...he owns a snowmobile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTnative Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Try skiing 4-6 hrs one way with ice gear on your back when there is only 9 hours of light, and then get back to me and tell me you had fun. I have done it and have great memories of it. All you need is a flask of wine in with your gear, a few days off, and some great climbing buddies! Guess what, I'll let you in on a secret...Hyalite is not the only place to ice climb within 150 miles of Bozo-town. It is the only KNOWN place to ice climb according to most. We have about 5 mountian ranges within 2-3 hours of each other, you really think that there is only one place to climb ice??!! There is so much open space that you as a climber, skier, snowmobiler, whatever can find a place to recreate. This place is amazing, just don't move here ! The sheep ARE scared in Montana, and it seems as if the West Coast folks are too! HAHA Let's get ready to rumble! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Get off your high horse MTnative...everyone knows Mt aint got nothin on the Cascades. If you think otherwise you are clearly misguided, or ignorant. Also, Rons dumbass guide book lists about 20 places to climb within 150 miles from Bozeman. The shit ain't no secret. Oh, and "native" means born in Montana...not moved there from the Midwest for ski bum college... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTnative Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 uuuhhh I was born in Montana before you were even a twinkle in God's eye, you snot nosed punk! I would not have called myself a Native, you stupid shit, if I wasn't! The North Cascades are the most beautiful range in the lower 48 no doubt.... There are many secret spots that aren't published in some book or broadcasted on the internet, you just need to roam a little! Cheers brother, I will forget your bad attitude cuz you used to live here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 MTnative, spare us your worthless pellets of horseshit from your inferiority complex Pez dispenser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTnative Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Classic!! How can I compete with that retort! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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