Rope Suggestions - Over 9mm Single, Glacier Travel

[mplutodh1]

In the market for a single, dry, over 9mm rope, primarily for glacier travel. Want a rope that will hold up to a little abuse, is 60m preferably in the event crevasse rescue situations arise.

 

Suggestions? Not looking to break the bank!

[Cal]

Just got a 9.4m dry/dry Edgewater at 2nd ascent in Ballard. $179 bucks on sale 'cause it was last year's model. They had a few of them.

[SeanO]

Any particular reason you want 60m? 30-40m is generally considered sufficient for 3 people, accounting for extra rope in the event of a rescue, or 2 people with coils. Also, you could probably go thinner than 9mm; more like 8mm because it won't be taking major falls.

[DPS]

Any particular reason you want 60m? 30-40m is generally considered sufficient for 3 people, accounting for extra rope in the event of a rescue, or 2 people with coils. Also, you could probably go thinner than 9mm; more like 8mm because it won't be taking major falls.

Agreed. Also a half rope, in my experience, is more durable than a skinny single rope. The skinny single rope achieves its weight savings largely at the expense of sheath durability. 50 meters is a great all around length. Good for technical climbing, plenty long for glacier travel. Look for something 8-9 mm X 50 m and you should be good to go. My preference is the Edelweiss 8.5mm Sharp Everdry. Not cheap, but a great rope.

[BootsandPants]

You're going to pay more for a 60m single with a dry treatment than you would a shorter, thinner rope. If you're just using it for snow/glacier travel it won't be seeing much wear, so you don't need something that'll be super burly to withstand abuse that ropes take on rock.

 

Here's a good plan;

 

1) Go to REI and pick up this rope which is good for dragging across snow.

2) Use your 20% off coupon and it'll be a steal (~$70).

3) Use your dividend on top of it and it's even cheaper, or free.

4) ????

5) Go climbing and profit!

 

If you're still sold on the full length single, justropes.com has some Edelweiss ropes on clearance for good prices.

[JoshK]

Any particular reason you want 60m? 30-40m is generally considered sufficient for 3 people, accounting for extra rope in the event of a rescue, or 2 people with coils. Also, you could probably go thinner than 9mm; more like 8mm because it won't be taking major falls.

Agreed. Also a half rope, in my experience, is more durable than a skinny single rope. The skinny single rope achieves its weight savings largely at the expense of sheath durability. 50 meters is a great all around length. Good for technical climbing, plenty long for glacier travel. Look for something 8-9 mm X 50 m and you should be good to go. My preference is the Edelweiss 8.5mm Sharp Everdry. Not cheap, but a great rope.

 

Another vote for 50m for an all-around glacier rope. That's still long enough if you want to climb with a 4-person team or need to do an occasional short rap. A 30m is nice to add to your gear collection later for just travelling with one other person and you aren't expecting to rap much. Also agree on a half rope for glacier travel rather than a skinny single. For glacier use you won't really need to worry about the leader taking a high fall factor whipper, or if you do, something has probably already gone quite wrong.

[kurthicks]

I would like to add that doing crevasse rescue with a half rope is a lot more work than with a single rope--due to rope stretch, prussiks slipping, and the rope cutting in further to the edge. Just something to think about.

[SeanO]

Thanks for the input Kurt. Would you say that the additional difficulty when performing crevasse rescue warrants carrying a single rope for glaciers, in your opinion?

[kurthicks]

It depends on the likelihood of a significant crevasse fall.

 

Would I use a half rope in Alaska? No, since falls are likely and often severe. Would I use one on mellow glacier routes in Washington? Sure, some of the time. I generally take an 8.9mm to 9.2mm dry-treated single for most of my stuff in Washington as the little weight increase is worth it for ease of rescue and the ability to use the rope for technical pitches (like on the North Ridge of Baker, for example). As for length, I can honestly say that I never go on a glacier with less than 40m of rope and I usually take a 50 or 60, even for a team of 2.

 

Go practice crevasse rescue on a snowbank this spring with a half rope and a single and decide for yourself before you buy.

[Dave7]

My 50m, 9.4 tendon rope works well for me. Just my 2 cents.

[genepires]

I just don't get it why people will think that a 30m is fine for teams of two. You can not carry enough rescue coils and still space the climbers farther than 25 feet apart with a 30m rope. 25 ft is not much room between climbers. (25 feet between, 30 feet of rope on each coil and about 5 used in knots)

 

Maybe someone can explain to me why a 30m is fine for teams of two.

 

teams of three don't make sense either as in what do you do if the middle person falls in and needs to be hauled out. Assuming you got 30 feet between climbers, you got 10 ft of rope in each coil. Heaven forbid you have to rap in for first aid.

[kurthicks]

Maybe someone can explain to me why a 30m is fine for teams of two.

 

Fast 'n light Gene...Fast 'n light for A) those who have never had a serious crevasse fall or B) never practiced rescue in a real crack or C) by those who are actually dialed or D) by ski mountaineers who are relying on skis and a deep snowpack to prevent a serious fall or E) folks whom just think you're just supposed to carry a rope 'cause ya know, yer on a glacier.

[mplutodh1]

Thanks all.

 

And yes, I've read a lot of opinions and thoughts around using 30m half ropes and my conservative nature draws me more towards the longer thicker ropes for a little extra weight.

 

Hadn't thought much about a 50m, sounds reasonable.

 

Any recommendations beyond the few in the thread? Never heard of edgewater... maybe I'm missing something there though!

 

Tendons, don't know much about them and from what I can tell hard to find but look like decent ropes - pretty much on par for price.

[SeanO]

This is a good conversation, I'm glad we're discussing it. I'll be hopefully practicing crevasse rescue in the next couple weekends and hope to dial this in for myself.

 

If we go by Gene's numbers (and 30 feet between climbers since a 30m rope is 98.4 feet), I'm assuming 30 feet in coils isn't enough to execute a rescue. How many feet is necessary, and also how many is recommended?

 

It seems that 30 feet would be plenty for a Z pulley, assuming the arresting climber isn't right next to the crevasse. Let's say they're 5 feet away from the edge. They place a temporary anchor, move up about 10 feet and place a bomber anchor, then return 10 feet and add a prussik and pulley, then start pulling the climber out. Assuming a few feet for knots, the rescuing climber would still be left with some (admittedly little) extra rope.

 

A few obvious statements: this situation would be really difficult and suck no matter what for 2 people. But are the numbers way off? This is essentially the consolidated advice from other climbers and I'd like to get your opinions (Kurt and Gene).

[SeanO]

Any recommendations beyond the few in the thread? Never heard of edgewater... maybe I'm missing something there though!

 

I think they meant to say Bluewater. I also picked up a 10mm double dry from them during the Second Ascent sale.

 

I think it's good that you lean conservatively when it comes to glacier safety, as Gene and Kurt are reinforcing. I'm rethinking my fast 'n light philosophy...

[hamballs]

I would like to add that doing crevasse rescue with a half rope is a lot more work than with a single rope--due to rope stretch, prussiks slipping, and the rope cutting in further to the edge. Just something to think about.

 

I'll argue, that given the amount of time you'll spend carrying the rope in your pack (which is the nature of most climbs in the PNW), may outweigh the benefit of an easier extraction.

 

I use a 30m Rando, a 60m twin (8.2) , or a 60m single (9.1) depending on the climb. For glacier walks, I tend to go smaller, if there will be a vertical component I use a single or twins.

 

Finally, you can quite competently perform a team rescue with a 30m 8mm rope. You need thinner prussik material and your system dialed but its not unreasonable. There's plenty of rope to work with.

[genepires]

thanks kurt.

 

Just my opinion though but I like to have lots of room between climbers especially for teams of 2. I usually give myself around 45 feet. Having self arrest practice enough, I have seen some slides take a long time to stop and that is without having the rope pull even harder. Granted I have never had the chance to test out a crevasse fall like this in a real situation,(I got crazy mad crevasse sniffing skillz) but I can visualize some very long slides before making the arrest. Like getting pulled onto the back, head towards hole. I am such a scardy pants about this that I usually put 3 knots in the rope to help out. Which of course means that I need to carry enough rescue coils (which needs to be about 10% longer than the amount between the two climbers due to rope stretch) to be able to send another line down to prussik out with. By my numbers, a 50m is perfect.

 

If I wasn't such a scardy cat about the what-ifs, then I would be on a 30m rope. Either that or I just feel really cool and swavy with those rescue coils, imagining that I am conrad kain.

[JoshK]

Agreed that the 30m option is popular when ski mountaineering. You also need to evaluate the type of glacier climb you will be doing, as Kurt alluded to. There is a big difference between walking a heavily broken and steep glacier in September and skiing a lower angle, well bridged and infrequently crevassed glacier in May. The discussion in this thread, and the list of options presented, are all viable in different circumstances. Perhaps start with a rope that you find most comfortable using for what you first plan on tackling, and you can add additional rope options to your collection as you gain experience and have new goals.

[rob]

Which of course means that I need to carry enough rescue coils to be able to send another line down to prussik out with.

 

huh?

[DPS]

Which of course means that I need to carry enough rescue coils to be able to send another line down to prussik out with.

 

huh?

If you tie butterfly knots in the rope between the climbers then you have to send an unknotted rope down so the guy in the hole can prusik out.

 

 

[rob]

Which of course means that I need to carry enough rescue coils to be able to send another line down to prussik out with.

 

huh?

If you tie butterfly knots in the rope between the climbers then you have to send an unknotted rope down so the guy in the hole can prusik out.

 

 

Ah. I was just always taught to pass the knot.

 

 

[DPS]

In the one time that I used this technique and my partner went into a crevasse, the knot jammed so deep in the slot that it would have been impossible to prusik that rope. A second rope was employed, so one needs to have enough coils to drop into the climber in the hole.

[rob]

In the one time that I used this technique and my partner went into a crevasse, the knot jammed so deep in the slot that it would have been impossible to prusik that rope. A second rope was employed, so one needs to have enough coils to drop into the climber in the hole.

 

Hmm, yeah, I guess. I was always taught that you should always be prepared to pass the knot. After all, the climber in the hole could be above you, or at a weird fall angle. Or the arresting climber could be injured, or it could turn into a hauling situation. Or there could be wind. Or....

 

I've never been in a real crevasse incident, but when practicing, clearing the lip has ALWAYS been difficult. I've tried it with a knot in the lip, too, but admittedly it wasn't after a fall

[DPS]

We actually could not retrieve the rope, we had to cut it.

[upzmtn]

The discussion in this thread, and the list of options presented, are all viable in different circumstances. Perhaps start with a rope that you find most comfortable using for what you first plan on tackling, and you can add additional rope options to your collection as you gain experience and have new goals.

 

That pretty much says it all. Good discussion of the the options though.