Conservative really?

[kevbone]

http://georgelakoff.com/2011/02/19/what-conservatives-really-want/

 

"Conservatives believe in individual responsibility alone, not social responsibility. They don’t think government should help its citizens."

[rob]

This article is several months old. This isn't what they want anymore.

 

 

One thing is FOR SURE though -- they don't actually want to cut spending. Or else they'd cut the defense budget, immediately. No, they just want to cut CERTAIN TYPES of spending -- basically, any sort of spending that doesn't benefit their rich friends. They call that socialism (or fascism, it doesn't seem to matter which) and find all sorts of interesting ways to blackmail the country into giving their rich friends more money.

 

[akhalteke]

Defense HAS been cut. 50,000 DOD wide will get the axe and many high dollar and low dollar projects have already been axed.

 

Now, this money will just go into another project and be wasted there...

Ok guys, we saved 3.8 billion from the DOD. That means we can spend 3.7 billion on wastefull spending and STILL save the government money

 

Sadly enough, this is how politicians think. Much like todays modern white trash buying a $5000 TV with zero down.

 

[billcoe]

I agree. As far as the blathering of this jackoff that Kevbone linked goes, I didn't make it past this:

 

"In the 2008 campaign, candidate Obama accurately described the basis of American democracy: Empathy — citizens caring for each other, both social and personal responsibility—acting on that care, and an ethic of excellence. From these, our freedoms and our way of life follow, as does the role of government: to protect and empower everyone equally. Protection includes safety, health, the environment, pensions and empowerment starts with education and infrastructure. No one can be free without these, and without a commitment to care and act on that care by one’s fellow citizens."

 

Bullshit, that's not freedom. Candidate Obama may have spewed a lot of things which President Obama he doesn't follow and extra wars is one more thing we don't need right now. Candidate Obama express the need to get our budget balanced, and President Obama is causing to to go ballistic into the strategist. It's a horrible thing that will cause all kinds of big issues d0own the road. I'd be fine if they bumped the taxes for everyone in a fair way AND AT THE SAME TIME brought the incredible amounts of spending back under some semblance of control. Of course the typical yammering about big corporations not paying any money, but no examples and specifics. Don't address the huge issue in the room which is the government spending like an out of control drunken sailor. Of course it CANNOT continue, and what that means is that you, joe average, eventually gets to foot the bill of what appears to be near unlimited wasteful government spending which we will borrow to spend. Trust me on this, it won't be the big corp. on who's back this heavy burden will be placed - it will be yours. You can pay it back sometime in the future, don't worry. Hey, it won't even be you, we'll make your kids pay it. The oppressive's want to kill the Goose that lays the golden eggs and are thinking that maybe they'll get rich in the process. Uhhh, that's not the way the real world works outside of the government mindset in the real world and it's not going to happen that way.

 

We need to do it now, not later. Less spending, now.

[JosephH]

Of course the typical yammering about big corporations not paying any money, but no examples and specifics.

From U.S. Senator Bernie Sander's web site:

 

March 27, 2011

Sanders Calls for Shared Sacrifice

 

BURLINGTON, Vt., March 27 - While hard working Americans fill out their income tax returns this tax season, General Electric and other giant profitable corporations are avoiding U.S. taxes altogether.

 

With Congress returning to Capitol Hill on Monday to debate steep spending cuts, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said the wealthiest Americans and most profitable corporations must do their share to help bring down our record-breaking deficit.

 

Sanders renewed his call for shared sacrifice after it was reported that General Electric and other major corporations paid no U.S. taxes after posting huge profits. Sanders said it is grossly unfair for congressional Republicans to propose major cuts to Head Start, Pell Grants, the Social Security Administration, nutrition grants for pregnant low-income women and the Environmental Protection Agency while ignoring the reality that some of the most profitable corporations pay nothing or almost nothing in federal income taxes.

 

Sanders compiled a list of some of some of the 10 worst corporate income tax avoiders.

 

1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings. (Source: Exxon Mobil's 2009 shareholder report filed with the SEC here.)

 

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion. (Source: Forbes.com here, ProPublica here and Treasury here.)

 

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS. (Source: Citizens for Tax Justice here and The New York Times here. Note: despite rumors to the contrary, the Times has stood by its story.)

 

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009. (Source: See 2009 Chevron annual report here. Note 15 on page FS-46 of this report shows a U.S. federal income tax liability of $128 million, but that it was able to defer $147 million for a U.S. federal income tax liability of $-19 million)

 

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year. . (Source: Paul Buchheit, professor, DePaul University, here and Citizens for Tax Justice here.)

 

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction. (Source: the company's 2009 annual report, pg. 112, here.)

 

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department. (Source: Bloomberg News here, ProPublica here, Treasury Department here.)

 

8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury. (Source: Paul Buchheit, professor, DePaul University, here, ProPublica here, Treasury Department here.)

 

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2006 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction. (Sources: Profits can be found here. The deduction can be found on the company's 2010 SEC 10-K report to shareholders on 2009 finances, pg. 127, here)

 

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent. (Source: The New York Times here)

 

Sanders has called for closing corporate tax loopholes and eliminating tax breaks for oil and gas companies. He also introduced legislation to impose a 5.4 percent surtax on millionaires that would yield up to $50 billion a year. The senator has said that spending cuts must be paired with new revenue so the federal budget is not balanced solely on the backs of working families.

 

"We have a deficit problem. It has to be addressed," Sanders said, "but it cannot be addressed on the backs of the sick, the elderly, the poor, young people, the most vulnerable in this country. The wealthiest people and the largest corporations in this country have got to contribute. We've got to talk about shared sacrifice."

 

From where I sit, you can't blow trillions upon trillions in wars and tax breaks for the corporations and the rich and then complain about 'government spending'.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Of course the typical yammering about big corporations not paying any money, but no examples and specifics.

From U.S. Senator Bernie Sander's web site:

 

March 27, 2011

Sanders Calls for Shared Sacrifice

...

 

I see the numbers but how is this shit possible? It mentions loopholes but what are the specifics? Time for those in charge to grow some balls and do something about it.

Edited July 11, 2011 by KaskadskyjKozak

[kevbone]

From where I sit, you can't blow trillions upon trillions in wars and tax breaks for the corporations and the rich and then complain about 'government spending'.

 

[tvashtarkatena]

I agree. As far as the blathering of this jackoff that Kevbone linked goes, I didn't make it past this:

 

"In the 2008 campaign, candidate Obama accurately described the basis of American democracy: Empathy — citizens caring for each other, both social and personal responsibility—acting on that care, and an ethic of excellence. From these, our freedoms and our way of life follow, as does the role of government: to protect and empower everyone equally. Protection includes safety, health, the environment, pensions and empowerment starts with education and infrastructure. No one can be free without these, and without a commitment to care and act on that care by one’s fellow citizens."

 

Bullshit, that's not freedom. Candidate Obama may have spewed a lot of things which President Obama he doesn't follow and extra wars is one more thing we don't need right now. Candidate Obama express the need to get our budget balanced, and President Obama is causing to to go ballistic into the strategist. It's a horrible thing that will cause all kinds of big issues d0own the road. I'd be fine if they bumped the taxes for everyone in a fair way AND AT THE SAME TIME brought the incredible amounts of spending back under some semblance of control. Of course the typical yammering about big corporations not paying any money, but no examples and specifics. Don't address the huge issue in the room which is the government spending like an out of control drunken sailor. Of course it CANNOT continue, and what that means is that you, joe average, eventually gets to foot the bill of what appears to be near unlimited wasteful government spending which we will borrow to spend. Trust me on this, it won't be the big corp. on who's back this heavy burden will be placed - it will be yours. You can pay it back sometime in the future, don't worry. Hey, it won't even be you, we'll make your kids pay it. The oppressive's want to kill the Goose that lays the golden eggs and are thinking that maybe they'll get rich in the process. Uhhh, that's not the way the real world works outside of the government mindset in the real world and it's not going to happen that way.

 

We need to do it now, not later. Less spending, now.

 

Take a break from your kookblogz and just read a reglar ole news rag (just about any national rag will do) once in a while and you might find that people ARE talking very specifically about how corporations aren't paying their fair share.

 

Just because you're clueless doesn't mean the rest of us are.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2011 by tvashtarkatena

[JosephH]

The great conservative one-liner is 'trickle down'. Don't tax corporations and the rich who benefit from them and the money will flow downhill to the rest of us and the government so that the middle class and infrastructure will be maintained. The same crew said unfunded wars would spread democracy which in turn would yield financial and resource rewards for America.

 

We've just done a decade-long, large-scale experiment in both ideas and, Reaganesque feel-good platitudes aside, bigger failures would be hard to find. 'Trickle down' doesn't, never will, and if you think it does I have an anti-gravity machine that might interest you...

[KaskadskyjKozak]

The great conservative one-line is 'trickle down'. Don't tax corporations and the rich who benefit from them and the money will flow downhill to the rest of us and the government so that the middle class and infrastructure will be maintained. The same crew said unfunded wars would spread democracy which in turn would yield financial and resource rewards for America.

 

We've just done a decade-long, large-scale experiment in both ideas and, Reaganesque feel-good platitudes aside, bigger failures would be hard to find. 'Trickle down' doesn't, and never will and if you think it does I have an anti-gravity machine that might interest you...

 

Umm, yeah, that's a productive response.

[tvashtarkatena]

You forgot "buyer beware". This is a Randian movement (Or, HEY GANG: Let's run the nation based on the kindergarten ideas of a shitty pulp writer who displayed a Soviet toaster's level of understanding of actual human nature). Financial regulation? Buyer beware! Let's pit Harvard MBAs against Ma and Pa Kettle and see who wins! Class action suits? Nope: Buyer beware!

 

Personal responsibility is a great thing...if it applies to everyone. In this wealth concentration movement, it clearly doesn't.

 

Anyone actually serious about budgeting would slash the sacred military cow SEVERELY and scale back a failed world hegemonic mission we never could really afford...and tax the living hell out of those who are sitting prettier than at anytime in history. Call it what it is: wealth redistribution for a healthier, more sustainable, and less stressed out future.

 

Until an angry mob burns some Medinites or Gross Pointites out of their McMansions, though, I fear this bullshit will continue.

 

Oh, and BTW, FUCK YOU to your not-so-veiled pro fundy agenda, Tea Baggers, ya lying, dysfunctional fucks.

 

Ebbybody have a nice day!

 

 

[billcoe]

You're right, I overstated the case. I don't disagree with your point, GE being the most egregious example not paying any taxes. You can search CC.Com and see my earlier rant on that very company and this very subject.

 

I'm focusing on the growth of government spending that has been occurring for no particular reason for decades. You think you can flip a switch and make the large corporations pay off this bill? I don't. The cut off the corporation "loopholes" everyone is discussing is a market basket of mixed things that congress allowed in earlier times. Some of them make good sense for everyone, some undoubtedly were attached to some rider and slipped through to benefit someones home state corp and at best may bolster employment only. Focusing on these "loopholes avoids the multi-trillion pound Elephant in th eroom and that is that government spending has steadly risen this century through good times or bad, high revenue and low. And it has recently accelerated in a huge way. We need to turn the gov't spending around now or face severe structural issues when the interest rates increase and the borrowing costs raise even more. Government spending rises when revenue rises and then it rises some more when revenue drops. Look at the chart. There is no correlation and all that is seen is the steady increase of governemt spending. And interest rates (and the US borrowing costs) will rise. I'm personally betting the farm on it. The longer we wait, the more painful will be this process, and it cannot go on into infinity.

 

In 2005 dollars here is the Federal Government spending.

 

 

 

When you put it as it relates to GDP, it changes for the depression and WW2 years, but the steady inexorable rise is still there.

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Randy conservative asset rapers on baroque financial instruments:

 

"The bitch was askin' for it."

 

 

[Hugh Conway]

I'm focusing on the growth of government spending that has been occurring for no particular reason for decades.

 

No particular reason? Seriously?

[billcoe]

I'm focusing on the growth of government spending that has been occurring for no particular reason for decades.

 

No particular reason? Seriously?

 

Seriously. It just keeps going up through thick and thin, good and bad. Up up up. Look at the chart from 1923 - 2010. Up up up. Why did it increase during the Reagan and Bush years and has just continued to increase (based on 2005 dollars like the top chart shows)? Seriously. Up Up Up. More up.

[tvashtarkatena]

Um...Reagan's military build up? You know, the one that was supposed to show the world how big our Johnson was after our Vietnam era display of flaccidity (in the doe eyes of most Reaganauts).

 

It would be cool if we could stop defining the entirety of our National Character and Pride using wars as the sole measure.

 

Not that war isn't good boyish fun and all....

 

We'd be REALLY good at fighting WWII again, though. That much can be said. Only this time we'd have air conditioned Burger Kings at the front.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Um...Reagan's military build up?

 

Coupled with the D's congress refusal to cut their programs during said buildup. Since then... military cuts big time in the wake of the fall of the Communist block, bases closed, taxes raised twice (read my lips + Bubba), then more spending under W and 2 wars, W on anything under the sun, and B-HO on all the latter and more.

 

But let's keep it simple and just say "Reagan". Umm yeah.

 

And let's not forget the "War on Poverty" (how's that coming along, btw?), and Vietnam.

 

[prole]

Don't get your panties in a bunch.

[tvashtarkatena]

Um...Reagan's military build up?

 

Coupled with the D's congress refusal to cut their programs during said buildup. Since then... military cuts big time in the wake of the fall of the Communist block, bases closed, taxes raised twice (read my lips + Bubba), then more spending under W and 2 wars, W on anything under the sun, and B-HO on all the latter and more.

 

But let's keep it simple and just say "Reagan". Umm yeah.

 

And let's not forget the "War on Poverty" (how's that coming along, btw?), and Vietnam.

 

The War on Poverty had some successes and failures, but it probably beats the present, psychopathic War on the Poor.

 

We all know Reagan's military spending continued under a number of administrations...but that would have been a lot less likely had Reagan not kicked it off, no?

 

Like Nixon's War on Drugs....

 

I think the 'architect' of a failed policy deserves a healthy share of the credit...AM I WRONG?

 

AM

 

I

 

WRONG?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

AM

 

I

 

WRONG?

 

Yes

[tvashtarkatena]

I knew you wouldn't get the reference.

 

Conservatives...

 

 

...sigh.

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

All the sense of humor of a brick with none of the intelligence.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

All the sense of humor of a brick with none of the intelligence.

 

Self-realization is a great thing. Keep working on it - you're making great progress.

[rob]

I knew you wouldn't get the reference.

 

Conservatives...

 

 

...sigh.

 

 

[video:youtube]

[tvashtarkatena]

Did that take you more than a nanosecond to catch, Rob?

 

Why are today's conservatives SO FUCKING SLOW, BORING, AND JUST PLAIN DUMB?

 

Oh...right. It's a self selection thing.

 

OK KKK, I'll hand you over to the j-bster for your daily tit for tat fix. Time to grind....