This fight is about the kids?

[kevbone]

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[kevbone]

[video:youtube]

[tvashtarkatena]

A little context here:

 

New Jersey has the highest per capita state budget deficit in the country. Despite this, neither Christie nor his legislature has attempted to remove collective bargaining rights for state employees.

 

Still, I disagree with Christie's approach because he, like all of his Rfuck colleagues, hasn't chosen to tax the wealthy before turning his guns on the middle class. If he'd done this, his other budget cutting efforts might have more credibility. In not having done this, he's just another wealth concentrator in my book.

 

In the final analysis, however, Christie seems to be 10 times the man that Walker in the fullest sense of the phrase. I think he's probably the strongest candidate the GOP's got for 2012 - except that he refuses to run (so far).

 

I had dinner with a wealthy developer in Richland this weekend. His synopsis? "Our taxes are way too low. I pay way less than I did 20 years ago. It's become ridiculous."

[kevbone]

What do ya think? The next pres?

 

 

[video:youtube]

[tvashtarkatena]

The popular wisdom that lower taxes for the wealthy will 'create jobs in New Jersey' is at the expense of 100% local state employee jobs is, of course, absolute shit. Most of that money flies out of the state in short order for out of state investment and luxury expenditures, like really great vacations...and those would not be in New Jersey.

 

This new Rfuck strategy of raiding middle class incomes to fatten the rich will very predictably increase unemployment. It will also further strain already gutted social services as it drives thousands on the lower end of the state employee bell curve below the poverty line.

[kevbone]

I hate to admit it but he does make some valid points.

[tvashtarkatena]

Why hate to admit it? The problem is, he could solve a good portion of his state's deficit with little to no loss of middle class jobs by rolling back tax breaks on the wealthy, and has chosen not to, despite unemployment being the most pressing social problem we face today.

 

Its for this reason that Rfuck whining about deficits is really so much wealth concentrator bullshit. "Share the pain" my ass.

Edited February 28, 2011 by tvashtarkatena

[kevbone]

Why hate to admit it?

 

I always hate to admit it when a rep is right.

[tvashtarkatena]

He'd be a whole lot righter if he'd move some pain onto the backs of the wealthiest who will barely feel it.

[rob]

I like Gov. Daniels WAY more than Christie. Christie is a dumb fuck. At least Daniels cuts spending AND raises (some) taxes. He at least tried to (temporarily) raise the income tax on the rich in his state.

[tvashtarkatena]

It's amazing how the rich, who've enjoyed massive tax cuts since Clinton, are now untouchable. Raise taxes? What, are you CRAZY?

 

All I've got to say is: Well done, and hope it backfires bigtime.

[tvashtarkatena]

Also, IN has one of the lowest deficits if any state. That's probably why the Rfucks backed off on their 'right to work' legislation...they just didn't have much of a case.

[rob]

Cut spending on the poor and middle class, and give all that extra money to the rich in the form of tax breaks. What's not to love about that plan?

 

Now, just dress it up in teabaggery and Atlas Shrugged verbage, and voila! Brilliant!

 

[RuMR]

when is fairyweather gonna chime in??? Where is that guy? Out on a hot date with a pig or sumpin'?

[tvashtarkatena]

My Heritage Foundation buddy told me this weekend that a flat tax was a moral imperative.

 

That concept might be a bit more fair if it were levied on disposable income - something the middle class has not much of (now that it has to pay for all its benefits/retirement out of pocket) and the rich have, very apparently, too much of.

 

It's all in the math. "2+2=4!" (Newt Gingrich's Presidential Campaign Slogan...yes, the serial adulterer is making a bid for the Big Job!)

[prole]

[video:youtube]

[video:youtube]

 

The echo chamber at full roar here. It's amazing that the "tough talk", "tough choices", "talking to the American people like adults" narrative now spans the entire "range" of mainstream opinion despite the fact there's nary a shred of truth to be found in their founding assumptions nor any evidence their proposals will address (let alone solve) the crises. The lack of historical memory, the inability to call to mind events only a few months old is breathtaking. What's appealing about Christie as a politician is his ability to boil things down into simple black and white issues for a third grade audience in an entertaining way and that he does so within a media landscape and political establishment that isn't particularly interested in challenging any of his assumptions. You "hate to agree with him" because you're being fed the same bullshit from his Democrat Party "opposition".

[tvashtarkatena]

Really? Same bullshit? I'd love a supporting example.

 

Otherwise, yours is just...more bullshit.

[prole]

 

"New York is at a crossroads, and we must seize this opportunity, make hard choices..."

 

"This is hard work and these are tough decisions..."

 

[kevbone]

What's appealing about Christie as a politician is his ability to boil things down into simple black and white issues for a third grade audience in an entertaining way and that he does so within a media landscape and political establishment that isn't particularly interested in challenging any of his assumptions.

 

Unfortunately some people need it to be explained like this.

[pink]

can't we just flip the checker board over and just start over or call timeout or something

[j_b]

"As long as we let ourselves be boxed in by a rightwing agenda that leaves us searching for least-worst options, we're losing"

 

 

[Jim]

Here we go again. NJ does have a serious pension problem. If you look at the liabilities it adds up to about $35k per household (in today's dollars - more in the future) - and there is a lot of them in NJ! One of the items Christie proposed was to have state employees contribute 1.5 percent of their salary towards paying their health care. The unions went ballistic.

 

Something has to change to alter an unsustainable system. Look at pg 3 of this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/magazine/27christie-t.html

 

[j_b]

I'd go ballistic too if I were asked to give up part of my compensation while Republican cronies keep getting subsidized with my tax dollars. As a self-proclaimed liberal, it's really disturbing that you keep missing that little fact (beside the inconvenient truth that public employee compensation being smaller on average than private sector employees).

 

But, you keep confusing everything: "cyclical deficits are distinct from the longer term issues related to bond indebtedness, pension obligations, and retiree health insurance. These latter issues — size of which often has been exaggerated in recent months — can be addressed over the next several decades. It is not appropriate to add these longer-term costs to projected operating deficits for the purpose of declaring that states are in a crisis too deep for them to handle."

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=711

 

 

[j_b]

Look at pg 3 of this article

 

on page 3: "it wasn’t the unions who chose not to fund the pension year in and year out, and yet it’s their members who will have to recalibrate their retirements if the benefits are cut.

 

When I made this same point to Christie, he simply shook his head. What’s done is done, he told me"

 

LOLZ. Republicans wanted to drown government in a bathtub so "what is done, is done". Fucking retards! As if it weren't reversible: tax the wealthy their fair share, close tax loopholes and make war on tax heavens, bring the troops home, and take back the various subsidies to big pharma, big oil, etc ...

[Jim]

And your point? The states have let liabilities build up. NJ has some of the highest if not THE highest taxes in the US. The larger problem has been promising what cannot be delivered. I noticed you failed to mention the chart on pg 3 that indicates the liabilities of each state. WA, with one of the smallest, has ONLY a pension liability of $3,200 per household. The only two solutions I hear from the left is 1) it's not a problem, or 2) raise taxes. The former is more of the same, the latter not feasible. You cannot tax your way out of these huge liabilities. No way. No how. Taxing the rich 50% will not do it.