glassgowkiss Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 ""Gasherbrum II is the third highest peak of the Gasherbrum massif, located in the Karakoram range of the Himalaya." WTF? G2, so if Hidden peak is the tallest and G2 is third, what peaks is in between? So is it Himalaya or Karakoram? from http://www.thenorthfacejournal.com/gasherbrum-2-winter-expedition/ Quote
G-spotter Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasherbrum They were probably reading Wikipedia bob Quote
mtn_mouse Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 ""Gasherbrum II is the third highest peak of the Gasherbrum massif, located in the Karakoram range of the Himalaya." WTF? G2, so if Hidden peak is the tallest and G2 is third, what peaks is in between? So is it Himalaya or Karakoram? from http://www.thenorthfacejournal.com/gasherbrum-2-winter-expedition/ Broad peak is inbetween. and by the way, Hidden peak is also called GI Quote
rocky_joe Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 The Himalaya is the mountain range that separates the Indian subcontinent from the main Asian continent. The Himalaya include sub-ranges, e.g. the Karakoram. So, the Gasherbrum massif is located in the Karakoram range within the Himalaya. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himalaya Quote
glassgowkiss Posted February 1, 2011 Author Posted February 1, 2011 Broad peak is inbetween. and by the way, Hidden peak is also called GI in between what? before you write just look at the map and THINK! Broad Peak is north of Concordia, Gasherbrum massive is south of that point. Broad Peak consists of 3 summits (North 7550m, Central 8013m and Main 8047m). There are 6 Gasherbrum summits- G1 and G2 are 8068m and 8035m. The distance between Broad Peak and closer G2 is at least 5 km. They are above different valleys- Broad Peak is above Godwin-Austen Glacier and Gasherbrums are above Abruzzi Glacier. The only thing between G1 and G2 is a nasty alpine ridge about 2km long. Quote
glassgowkiss Posted February 1, 2011 Author Posted February 1, 2011 The Himalaya is the mountain range that separates the Indian subcontinent from the main Asian continent. The Himalaya include sub-ranges, e.g. the Karakoram. So, the Gasherbrum massif is located in the Karakoram range within the Himalaya. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himalaya it's on the net, so it's true.... fox news was showing location of Egypt where Iraq is- must be true as well. Well, here is a bit more scientific source: The Mountains of Central Asia and Their Nomenclature Ph. C. Visser The Geographical Journal Vol. 76, No. 2 (Aug., 1930), pp. 138-142 (article consists of 5 pages) Quote
glassgowkiss Posted February 1, 2011 Author Posted February 1, 2011 Donny- you are out of your element. Shut the fuck up! Quote
rocky_joe Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Before you write, just look at a map and THINK. Broad Peak is the north most peak in the Gasherbrum Massif. It is clear, when you look at a topo of the area that they are on the same massif, which is in the Karakoram in the Himalaya. The North face was not, in any way, wrong in what they wrote. And it is in between Hidden Peak and G2 in terms of height, not geographic location. That is what Mtn_Mouse was saying. Quote
glassgowkiss Posted February 1, 2011 Author Posted February 1, 2011 . Broad Peak is the north most peak in the Gasherbrum Massif. It is clear, when you look at a topo of the area that they are on the same massif, which is in the Karakoram in the Himalaya. The North face was not, in any way, wrong in what they wrote. And it is in between Hidden Peak and G2 in terms of height, not geographic location. That is what Mtn_Mouse was saying. so let's include K2 as well as the ridge line continues to Skyang Kangri and then to K2? I am sure with your knowledge of geography you should be drawing maps for fox news. Quote
mtn_mouse Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) The Gasherbrum-Broad Peak group seen from high on K2 to the north. (A) Gasherbrum I (B) Gasherbrum II © Gasherbrum III (D) Gasherbrum IV (E) Broad Peak Central (F) Broad Peak Central Foresummit (G) Broad Peak Main. The normal route on Broad Peak and the one attempted to ca. 250m from the summit this winter by Qudrat Ali, Shaheen Beg and Simone Moro, climbs the long snow slopes to the right, heading up to the gap between the Central and Main summits. [Photo] K2 Shared Summits Expedition Edited February 1, 2011 by mtn_mouse Quote
AlpineK Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Gasherbrum massif, Gasherbrum-Broad Massif,... Lets add K2 to the massif. Due to height it's now called the K2 and lesser massif. Gasherbrum II drops to the fourth highest in the massif. Quote
rocky_joe Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 . Broad Peak is the north most peak in the Gasherbrum Massif. It is clear, when you look at a topo of the area that they are on the same massif, which is in the Karakoram in the Himalaya. The North face was not, in any way, wrong in what they wrote. And it is in between Hidden Peak and G2 in terms of height, not geographic location. That is what Mtn_Mouse was saying. so let's include K2 as well as the ridge line continues to Skyang Kangri and then to K2? I am sure with your knowledge of geography you should be drawing maps for fox news. As long as they put me in the same studio as Sarah Palin. She's hot. Quote
rocky_joe Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Wikipedia is a lot more reliable than you have given it credit for. As a open-access peer reviewed/edited Encyclopedia it is open to the possibility of faulty information. Wikipedia is not some crack-job, single input ".net or .com," it is far more reliable than a blog, or single editor site that you have portrayed it as. for subjects of greater interest, eg.physical geography, or those that receive large traffic volumes, the information tends to be well sourced and correct. Believe it or not, a lot of wikipedia editors are well-qualified individuals who care about the lay-man having open, free access to accurate information. Sure, I haven't got a geography degree, but I have got the ability to look at a map and read an article and learn a thing or two. Thanks for the Visser article, good read. I don't know that I buy into his separation of Himalaya from Karakoram from Aghil from Kunlun. He makes the argument from the geographic stand-point and immediately dismisses the, equally legitimate, geologic observation that disagrees with his proposal. He even admits that the all four systems he discusses are easily proved to be from the same geological event. Once again. The Karakoram is a subsystem in the Himilaya range. They were created in the same event, well the rivers/glaciers that Visser uses to seperate the ranges. Geographically, there are differing viewpoints on this delineation of nomenclature, but geologically there is not. So, I'm going to stick with my fist statement. Quote
shapp Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I got a PM today from Climb X (Alex), which basically said the same thing, give us a call and have a beer, hey I am from the PNW/PDX. My take on this guy’s jedi-mind-trick response: Move along, this is not the sketchy knockoff, used care-salesman, CE uncertified, climbing gear re-brander you are looking for. Quote
glassgowkiss Posted February 1, 2011 Author Posted February 1, 2011 Wikipedia is wrong in several instances when I was preparing for the kinesiology portion of the class I am teaching. There were instances, where it did not line up at all with Platzer or Netter at all. I trust printed material way more then the source, which will publish without much of the check. Now every map separates the two ranges for almost 8 decades by now- I don't see how you can revise geography based upon one source- which is published on internet. Second- even Encyclopedia Brittanica ( http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/438805/Pakistan/23675/The-Himalayan-and-Karakoram-ranges ) states "Farther north is the Karakoram Range, which is a separate system adjoining the Himalayas". Hindu Kush and Pamir were formed during the same period, so by that token you'd have to include them in the Himalaya range? Don't think so! Fact of the matter is that even though they formed during the same geological period (and are still forming) they have first and foremost different climate. Karakoram Range doesn't suffer from the influence of monsoon (except for some freak seasons every now and then). Geologically they differ as well, while the Himalayas has a lot of sedimentary rock, Karakoram is formed from granite and metamorphic formations. Now if you can point out some other then Wikipedia material contradicting sources like Visser or Wala then we can talk. Other then that Karakoram is for decades separate range from the Himalayas and TNF writer did not do due diligence to get the facts straight. The same goes for Garsherbrum Range- Gasherbrums were always separated from Broad Peak (Falchan Kangri)- if you point out any other publication besides TNF I will be very interested in it. Quote
glassgowkiss Posted February 1, 2011 Author Posted February 1, 2011 The Gasherbrum-Broad Peak group seen from high on K2 to the north. (A) Gasherbrum I (B) Gasherbrum II © Gasherbrum III (D) Gasherbrum IV (E) Broad Peak Central (F) Broad Peak Central Foresummit (G) Broad Peak Main. The normal route on Broad Peak and the one attempted to ca. 250m from the summit this winter by Qudrat Ali, Shaheen Beg and Simone Moro, climbs the long snow slopes to the right, heading up to the gap between the Central and Main summits. [Photo] K2 Shared Summits Expedition Here is another view: http://blogk2.com/index.php?id=283&pic=198 The picture you presented foreshortened the view and the gap between Falchan Kangri and Gasherbrum group is not visible. You are trying to use optical illusion to make your point, however maps show different picture. Quote
NoahT Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 A quick google search turned up this interesting interactive topo map... http://wikimapia.org/6991919/Gasherbrum-massif Quote
glassgowkiss Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 Noah, this is the basic problem with just a google search and internet in general. The only source of reference is the link to Wikopedia, which in this case is incorrect. Now if you point out to other source I am more then open to listen, but it has to be a legit material. Now if you look beyond some funky topo map at the actual map you will see what I am talking about: http://c0278592.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/original/50467.jpg You can clearly see Falchen La (6550 m) separating the Gasherbrums from Broad Peak. There is almost 1500m deep col separating the two!. Now there is much more comprehensive material here: http://www.summitpost.org/broad-peak/151330 and here: http://www.summitpost.org/the-karakoram/170996 Now if you are going to name a group the proper name for the region is called Nothern Baltoro Muztagh, not some newspeak "Gasherbrum Group". Like I said- if you find any other sources then quoted Wikopedia I am more then eager to listen. I provided links to at least 4 sources contradicting wikopedia article. On that token I am ready to say again- TNF did not do the proper due diligence and made some significant errors. Quote
ScottP Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 TNF did not do the proper due diligence and made some significant errors. Quote
NoahT Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 It wasn't a vote for or against. I actually thought that looking at that topo made it pretty clear Broad would NOT be considered in the Gash Massif proper. Wiki's can get you oriented to a topic, but as always, the devil is in the details. N Quote
Fairweather Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Wikipedia is wrong in several instances when I was preparing for the kinesiology portion of the class I am teaching. There were instances, where it did not line up at all with Platzer or Netter at all. I trust printed material way more then the source, which will publish without much of the check. I'd love to hear more about your credentials in this regard. A baccalaureate degree in a related field from an accredited university? At least? Hanging on the wall next to your geography degree? Quote
glassgowkiss Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 It wasn't a vote for or against. I actually thought that looking at that topo made it pretty clear Broad would NOT be considered in the Gash Massif proper. Wiki's can get you oriented to a topic, but as always, the devil is in the details. N Noah, the map shows one thing, however the text attached to the map yet again mentions Broad Peak in the mix. If you look at the map, the ridge line turns South from G4 to G5 and to the North there is Falchan La, which is almost 1500 lower then Broad Peak and G2. Quote
glassgowkiss Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 I'd love to hear more about your credentials in this regard. A baccalaureate degree in a related field from an accredited university? At least? Hanging on the wall next to your geography degree? well it's MA00013399- look it up. And unlike you I actually went to school and geography was one of the subjects I had for 4 years. Quote
Fairweather Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 well it's MA0013399- look it up. And unlike you I actually went to school and geography was one of the subjects I had for 4 years. I just looked it up--for real. Are you serious? Your state-issued massage license? Quote
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