yikes Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I've more or less formed my own opinion but I'm curious what other CCers think. Do you use a transceiver for approaches to climbs (non-skiing objectives)? Do you think it causes you to venture onto riskier terrain? I guess this is similar to the argument in the thread a few months ago about PLB usage and risk-taking. I ask because I recently ran across a heated discussion on the subject over at MP from last spring. I always assumed that most people traveling in avy-prone terrain would carry a beacon in addition to good judgement. I was wrong. MP thread Forgive me if this has been discussed here before. My search was not fruitful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Assume you mean winter climbing? If you need to ski/snowshoe, you need a beacon. If you can walk, you probably don't need a beacon. With that logic, I rarely carry a beacon unless using floatation. Logical? not really. How can one argue against using a safety tool? After early june (last summer being the exception), carrying a beacon is probably useless weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 What he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertjoy Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) In the northwest, avalanche season is WINTER/SPRING. When weather/terrain conditions indicate high avalanche danger your recreational climb should be postponed. If the avy conditions are moderate or lower, you would still need at least a shovel to dig a pit and evaluate actual conditions as you are climbing. You should also have a beacon so that you have some chance of effecting a rescue, rather than simply relying on your own prediction that YOU could not be surprised by an avalanche during Avy Season. Cheap, lazy, and arrogant are not good character traits in a climbing partner. Isn't safety equipment ALWAYS carried in anticipation of a rare accident, not merely for frequent events, like leader falls in rock climbing? Tarp, bivy sack, extra gloves are all carried to deal with problems which usually don't happen. Edited January 13, 2011 by robertjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yikes Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 That's kinda what I thought. Any defenders of the other camp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I have considered an avy beacon in general although I do not bc ski at this point at all. that said, preparing for the rare and not the common-if an avy beacon is warranted by the chance of an avy--everyone should carry one along the dog route on hood, worms flow on helens, ingraham on rainier, etc.. but surely people don't. do climbers in himalaya, ruth gorge, denali bring/use avy beacons? definitely see plenty of evidence of avy in any mnt terrain but doesnt exactly come to mind on gear lists/shots i've seen. additionally if you've got an avy beac you should know how to use it, which = plenty of practice. At that point should you have enrolled in an avy 1 course? Following that to its conclusion, is avy 1 course and full beacon usage and knowledge a preq. for climbing s. side hood? when flotation is needed seems like a good rule. additionally when there is a bootback and flotation is not needed vs off the bootpack it is... thus you should have a beacon? or such that in AM you don't need flotation but by PM things are soft and flotation is desired? I'm no expert so I'd love to hear more feedback, thanks for posting that mp link. PLB, cell, avy beacon, camera.. any more electronics one should carry? GPS, Ipod... haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 In terms of winter alpine climbing, if forecast avalanche hazard is Moderate or higher there's probably significant new snow and the conditions are good for skiing but no good for climbing. After a week or so of continuous Low hazard is usually when I do my winter alpine climbing and at that point I don't usually take a beacon or probe, or even a shovel come to think of it. Same goes for ice climbing, if the avvy hazard is anything significant I'd rather choose a non-threatened route than carry avvy gear up a potentially hazardous route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 What he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaisedByPikas Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 If you answer yes to both of these questions then you should probably think hard about not carrying a beacon, probe, and shovel... Can any of the terrain I am going to be on produce an avalanche? Is the snowpack "configured" such that an avalanche is possible? (within reason...we can all think of some freak situation in summer that might cause slides) On the common routes on Rainier in summer its yes, no. In the winter its most likely yes, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucketz Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 whats a beacon do? shield you from poor decision making? these are questions that should be left up to the experts like climbing guides and ski patrollers. you know the poeple out doing the same thing at the same place day in and day out...real experts! or the office worker who steals from the corperation as they fantasize about being a real expert! beacons do nothing! if you need to be in the death zone, then you have alredy shown your ability!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 whats a beacon do? shield you from poor decision making? these are questions that should be left up to the experts like climbing guides and ski patrollers. you know the poeple out doing the same thing at the same place day in and day out...real experts! or the office worker who steals from the corperation as they fantasize about being a real expert! beacons do nothing! if you need to be in the death zone, then you have alredy shown your ability!! Beacons do nothing??? Holy horse shit. By that logic you probably solo everything right? A beacon is a tool just as everything else one uses while on that climb is. If you are reading an avalanche report while considering a climb what does that mean? Either there is a potentially dangerous slope on the approach, on the climb itself, or above the climb. I would take a beacon on any aspect of Hood, unless I was on the N. face, Black spider, or Yocum; same goes pretty much for all of Rainier. If there is snow at any angle over 20 degrees I'd have one on. If I am on a flat approach then on an alpine rock/ice route (not snow) then I probably wouldn't. Clearly this person does not understand a beacon and when one should be used, and by whom; or maybe they don't enjoy the snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucketz Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 hahahahaha! your right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfinley Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 When climbing in the big mountains I swing back and forth... sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I always fly into the range with one but whether I wear it or not depends on the route, the partner and the conditions. However I heard a pretty horrific story sometime back in regards to why you should climb with one: Two guys were in the Ruth and were hoping to climb Ham & Eggs. They set a high camp on the Root and a storm came in... long story short - they opted to descend in worsening conditions due to lack of food and fuel out of fear they'd get stuck up there if conditions got worse. They were rapping down a couloir when it aved above them. The ave destroyed the rap anchors and shredded the rope. The guy at the rap anchors hung on for dear life with his ice tools - but the guy who was rapping was swept away. After the ave ended the guy above downclimbed and started digging where the rope was... only the rope was shredded so he had to dig in multiple places before he finally found his partner. Luckily both climbers survived. The guy who told me the story said that from then on he wore his beacon on all routes. As for the idea that "beacons do nothing! if you need to be in the death zone, then you have alredy shown your ability!!" ... nice troll... If you really believe that you're an idiot. PS... below is a link to a write up of an ave accident in the AK Range and a note about the decision on not to carry a beacon. RIP Johnny. http://www.avalanche.org/data.php?date=2004-2005&sort=&id=30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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