New Nomic and Ergo failures...

[Dane]

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/12/petzl-nomic-and-ergodanger-danger-will.html

[genepires]

uh, I have a pair of nomics and ergos for sale now. 2010, bought 3 minutes ago.

 

not what I come to expect for petzl/charlet moser.

[RafalA]

Interesting, to say the least. I didn't like the new pommel attachment as soon as I found out about it...

 

The Ergos are sounds pretty amazing, though. I'd definitely like to try them out on ice!

[bearbreeder]

cr@p ... guess the quarks it is now ...

 

 

[Nitrox]

Should be a simple fix with a little Devcon 10110.

 

 

[Dane]

Should be a simple fix with a little Devcon 10110.

 

My thought as well but I seriously doubt it because of the amount of abuse the pommel takes. This isn't an easy fix for several reasons, steel on aluminum for one, too much slop in the mating sufaces originally and there is not full contact on the mating surface.

 

I like Petzl gear. And I am not over reacting here. Ice tools need to be 100%...period...end of story. Nomic and Ergo are not with this pommel interface design.

 

It's bad. Reminds me of the Clog Vulture failures in the early '80s. It will be interesting to see just how fast Petzl reacts.

 

 

 

[Nitrox]

You're probably right for the tool that has already had the teeth fail. On a new tool, I think the damage could be prevented with the Devcon.

 

Apply release compound to the aluminum and steel putty to the pommel. The pommel would then have teeth that mirror the tool. Even better would be to machine a couple more teeth into the tool and then bed the pommel.

 

I don't think you are over reacting at all.

 

 

 

 

[Dane]

I have a extremely high content (72%) stainless based epoxy that I use in the shop for bedding and fill. That is generally 2 1/2 times the steel in other epoxies.

 

Cutting more and deeper grooves in the end of the aluminum shaft is a good start but you'll still have only the one male fitting on the pommel to interfase with the shaft. Every other one will only be the epoxy you add.

 

As good as my steel epoxy is I know how epoxies adhere to the plastic (likely Delrin) and how tough they generally are in actual field use. I just don't believe it will offer the support required for the pommel to stay intact over the temperature extremes an ice tool will be used in and abuse of thousands and thousands of swings that are required.

[iceclimber]

Co-incidental timing, but a couple of days ago I'd noticed that the pommels on both of my new Nomics had some play; they've not been climbed on as of yet. Assumed the bolt was loose, however, tightening it had no effect whatsoever on the slop. I find it strange that the tolerances on the head of the new Nomic is so tight that pick replacement or hammer installation requires some considerable work, but the tolerances on the pommel interface are ridiculously sloppy.

 

I was wondering what the effect of that play might be; now I know. Hopefully Petzl gets on top of this quick.

[Nitrox]

How many steel teeth are there inside the pommel?

[Dane]

How many steel teeth are there inside the pommel?

 

ONE tooth..and it is 3mm thick of heat treated stainless steel. The shaft it mates to is 6mm thick aluminum.

 

As already mentioned they come new sloppy to the extreme where the original Nomic was a solid, tight fit even without ever having to crank the bolt holding them on.

[Dane]

Taking Nitrox's idea and Petzl's limitation on their warrenty here is what I came up with.

 

A short term fix until Petzl comes up with something better. No guarantee on how effective it will be.

 

 

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/12/quick-fix-for-new-nomic-or-ergo-pommels.html

[Nitrox]

Just a tip for anyone doing this, Make sure you fill any voids on the tool shaft with a water based filler such as clay or playdough. Also apply a release agent to the aluminum, if you don't its really easy to permanently join the two parts. If you use too much wait for the putty to get firm (45 minutes for the 10110) and then trim it with a razor knife.

 

 

 

 

[Dane]

Clarification here on Nitrox' comments:

 

You don't want to fill the three notches in the shaft with a filler. They need to be filled with epoxy for this to work. Nor do you want to use much epoxy. It takes very little (just a 3 or 4mm layer in the bottom of the pommel groove) and there is little to clean up, none to trim. Clean up can be done with a paper towel after you bolt the pommel in place.

 

Release agent goes on the shaft...

 

There shouldn't be any epoxy around the holes in the shaft or require any fill....it is obvious if you have the actual tools in hand and very simple. All you want to do here is fill the three small notches in the shaft and add support to the single steel tooth of the pommel. With even a tiny bit of caution this would be hard to screw up.

 

I did mine with the umbilical ties in place and didn't get epoxy any where near the cord. It took less than 10 minutes for the pair including cutting the pommels to clear the umbilical ties.

[Nitrox]

Or just send your tools to Dane for his hammer and pick and have him bed your pommel while he's digging around in there.

 

 

 

[genepires]

or throw some leashes on those rigs? no wait.....

[Julian]

leashes

 

lol

[Autoxfil]

http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/news/products-news-0/2010/12/21/information-griprest-nomic-ergo

 

Short version: a workaround for this season that locks the rest into one position, and a free exchange for 2011 tools when they get them out next fall.

 

Good job addressing this, Petzl!

[shoo]

Pretty happy they addressed this in such a short time. However, does anyone actually see the solution they propose? If it's a pommel modification, I was hoping they'd provide extra pommels so that you can change the size if desired for this season.

[shoo]

To add to that, the warranty return at the end of the year is a little iffy. Petzl hasn't exactly been on top of their game with regards to getting out gear within their expected time frames. This version was scheduled to be released in the US in August 2010. By my last update, they were scheduled for Jan 2011, right in the middle of the ice season. Who knows if this will further delay delivery. I, for one, don't particularly want to blow 2-3 weeks of next year's season sending my tools back to Petzl and waiting for them to come in. If they actually have tools ready in August, that would be great, but I'm skeptical.

 

Cross-posted on mountain project

[John Frieh]

To add to that, the warranty return at the end of the year is a little iffy. Petzl hasn't exactly been on top of their game with regards to getting out gear within their expected time frames. This version was scheduled to be released in the US in August 2010. By my last update, they were scheduled for Jan 2011, right in the middle of the ice season. Who knows if this will further delay delivery. I, for one, don't particularly want to blow 2-3 weeks of next year's season sending my tools back to Petzl and waiting for them to come in. If they actually have tools ready in August, that would be great, but I'm skeptical.

 

You get to use the modified tools until the replacements are available. No need to worry.

[Dane]

The "fix" is a pin (steel?) through the pommel locking it in position. It is a better answer than epoxy.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Dane

[shoo]

You get to use the modified tools until the replacements are available. No need to worry.

 

I understand that. However, if they keep doing what they've done previously and delay tool shipping until middle of the season, you have a conundrum. For those of us with only one pair of tools, we'd have to ship them off to Petzl, wait for them to process it, and wait for them to ship the new ones back.

 

This isn't an issue if Petzl actually gets their tools out on time, but could be an issue if they are delayed again until the ice season starts.

 

Edited to add, Sorry, the above sounds a lot harsher than I intended. Petzl's doing the right thing here given the circumstances, and I applaud them for it. I have no doubt they'll do their best to make their customers happy.

Edited December 21, 2010 by shoo

[John Frieh]

Dont ship them back until they have them in stock.

[shoo]

The "fix" is glue the pommel in position, as we discussed above, which seesm to have worked at leasy short term on my Ergos.

 

Anyone know if they're shipping with some steel epoxy and release solution? I can't imagine that many people just have that stuff lying around (I certainly don't), nor could it be that cheap.

Edited December 21, 2010 by shoo