Ice 50 years ago? Videos....

[Dane]

And you think it is hard now?

 

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/11/our-history.html

[Bob Vagabond MC]

Interesting blog, thanks for the link.

 

Here's a nice vid filmed in 1976 by Yvon Chouinard for National Geographic.

 

[JosephH]

I did Glenwood Falls in '76 seconding another guy. All I really remember is jeans, wool, Chiounard hammers, shitty french screws, water running down my wrists, and a lot of very early dry tooling to get the hell off the ice as often as possible.

[stevetimetravlr]

Joseph, when you say you climbed Glenwood Falls, do you mean Outlet Falls?

[JosephH]

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/colorado/co_ice__mixed/glenwood_canyon_ice/106084818

[Dane]

I suspect he was talking about the other Glenwood. Colorado hardman classic bitd! Good enough to make the cover shot of Climbing Magazine.

 

[JosephH]

Saying I 'climbed' it is a bit of a stretch, more like got chided and chastised up it as I kept attempting to leave the ice and get on rock in order to give the undersides of my soaked wrists a break.

 

As it was, it was my first, last, and only experience ice climbing. Three days later when I headed over to Boulder it was laying in a massive heap across [the old] I-70 and had to go back to town til they cleared off. If there's any activity where the advances in apparel made a world of difference between then and now it's ice climbing. That and the wooden handled Chouinard hammers were less than optimal.

[Don_Serl]

And you think it is hard now?

 

judging from Davey's 'work' on The Hurting, I'd say, yah, it's hard now!

(not what you meant, but...)

 

nice post, tks.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Don_Serl

[Dane]

Ha, ha We've both been around awhile Don. I have to think that Piggot's Route (V,6) in 1960 was just about as hard physically and way harder mentally than the Hurting is by today's standards.

 

Certainly less folks capable of climbing at that standard in 1960. Straight shafted axes, many times 10 point crampons even then and generally wool clothing and terrible gear and ropes.

 

I started "ice" climbing in the late '60s before I got out of high school. And figured I was a real "ice climber" by the early '70s. But it was a good long time before I knew anyone that could climb Canadian V's and then only after Terrordactyls arrived in the US/Canada.

 

"Scottish Winter Grades:

These apply to ice and mixed conditions and are used primarily by climbers familiar with Scottish conditions. Roman numerals are the overall grades, while Arabic numbers are the technical grade of the hardest section. Scottish technical ratings are approximately 1 generous numeral higher than equivalent Water Ice or M-grades. Technical grade 5 is relatively straightforward, 6 is somewhat technical mixed climbing, and 7 and 8 are much more intricate, including harder snowed-up rock. The current range is 4-9. A complete grade is expressed as VI,8.

 

I: Snow gullies and easy ridges.

II: Steep snow where two ice tools may be required but technical difficulties are short. Possible difficult cornice exit.

III: Mixed ascents of moderate rock routes; icy gullies; sustained buttresses.

IV: Steep ice with short vertical steps or long pitches up to 70º, or mixed routes requiring advanced techniques.

V: Sustained ice to 80º or mixed climbs with linked hard moves. Climbs are difficult, sustained, and/or serious.

VI: Vertical ice and highly technical mixed routes. Grade VI and above routes have exceptional overall difficulties.

VII:Multi-pitch routes with long sections of vertical or thin ice, or mixed routes with lots of highly technical climbing.

VIII-IX: The hardest routes in Scotland. Canadian Winter."

 

Well sorted kit for '75. On a IV 4, (or IV 5 depending on who you talk to) which was pleanty steep in the day. Terrodactyls, Dachstein mitts, rigid SMC crampons, Whillians harness and leather single boots in a Peter Carman Super gaitor.

 

 

 

[Don_Serl]

...somewhat less well sorted kit, also 1975: your truly doing the FA of "The Hose" on De Pencier bluffs on Mt Seymour, the first winter that waterfall ice climbing took place out here on the coast... and my first ice FA...

 

 

 

wool underwear, wool knickers, wool shirt, wool sweater, Dachstein mittens, leather single boots (Val d'Or Eiger Darbelley's, I think), Salewa adjustable hinged crampons, a pair of Salewa ice hammers, narrow-diameter Salewa tube screws. damn, did we ever get cold! especially the freakin hands! lucky it was not that cold - not the Rockies!

 

as to the 'how hard' question, it no doubt took a lot of mental toughness and physical willingness to suffer in 'the old days', but I reckon guys like Dave MacLeod (etc) push it out at least as far and hard today, and they're clearly WAY stronger and better trained. but the stuff that gets climbed is SOOOO technical, and the gear is often pretty darn sketchy and hard to place. at least, that's true of the Scottish style - the bolted dry-tooling routes so common in many places these days seem to me to be just cold sport routes - they take tremendous ability and strength of course, but the chances of getting killed are minimal, so the intensity required is several levels lower than it was for the best of the old-timers. people DID fall off 'old-school' Ben Nevis routes with crap gear and shitty pro and pull the whole party to the ground...

Edited November 20, 2010 by Don_Serl

[JosephH]

It does dawn on me I was wearing one of those pre-poly, open-mesh cotton t-shirts. Those things were pretty damn funny, but they did help some, or maybe it was a placebo effect.

[Dane]

wool underwear, wool knickers, wool shirt, wool sweater, Dachstein mittens, leather single boots (Val d'Or Eiger Darbelley's, I think), Salewa adjustable hinged crampons, a pair of Salewa ice hammers, narrow-diameter Salewa tube screws. damn, did we ever get cold! especially the freakin hands! lucky it was not that cold - not the Rockies!

 

Ah, the Rockies 1973

 

 

-40C in the shade, after being in the sun all day. I wasn't totally sure we wouldn't die just walking back down. Seems dramatic now in the telling but a real possibility then if you did something wrong and ended up spending the night out without kit. Head lamps? No battery would last more than a few minutes back then in the cold. At -40C? It was just seconds.

 

Obvious wool hat, wool shirt, wool T neck, wool union suit, wool knickers, knicker sox, Trappeur single boots, Carmen Super gaiter (also wool and nylon), Dachstein mitts and a down vest.

 

Wool, the first soft shell!

 

Salewas tubes, Charlet wires, Chouinard 55cm Piolet, alpine hammer, and rigid crampons. Whillians harness and a frozen 150' Eldrid rope. WI3 seemed enough challenge. Things changed quickly in the next couple of years for all of us as the gear got better and better. And WI3 still seems a good challenge.

 

Another shot from '75. My buddy Ray Brooks on Cascade as well.

 

 

The obvious Chouinard influence on a Yank. Piolet, 'pons and alpine hammer. More Chouinard with the original Jensen pack and the Foam back cagoule. The then, high speed Joe Brown helmet, French wool knickers and Galiber Hivernal dbl boots. Check out the umbilical on Ray's alpine hammer.

[Don_Serl]

Ah, the Rockies 1973

 

The obvious Chouinard influence on a Yank. Piolet, 'pons and alpine hammer. More Chouinard with the original Jensen pack and the Foam back cagoule. The then, high speed Joe Brown helmet, French wool knickers and Galiber Hivernal dbl boots. Check out the umbilical on Ray's alpine hammer.

 

the crampons were brilliant (I used a pair for alpine into the '90s, then they broke, a universal problem with rigid crampons, and I lost confidence in the 2nd pair I owned), and the piolet worked better than most people would suspect (I recall climbing Weeping Wall with Laurie S in '81, with him up above swinging that great huge stick, running in WAYYYY out!), but the hammer was a travesty on steep waterfall ice. the Jensen pack was way ahead of its time - pity Don was killed cycling in Scotland. and the foamback... well, I had one of those fzckers too... perhaps the worst foul-weather gear I ever possessed... froze into medieval armour below freezing, of course... Peter Storm and Helly Hansen in Europe had the idea of putting a backer onto waterproofs far better sorted...

 

it was hard then, it's still hard now...

[JayB]

Great thread - thanks for sharing the photos, links, and stories!

[Dane]

Couple more from the past...May 1976..after a full day and night on steep, rock hard, Alaskan ice. We broke every wart hog I placed that night. Couldn't get a old Salewa screw in to "save my life". ..Chris getting to the ridge bivy.

 

 

And a few hrs later brewing up as the sun comes around again the next morning..

Terros and Chouinard Piolets in the back ground.

 

Ray Brooks photos.

[Tyson.g]

Great thread - thanks for sharing the photos, links, and stories!

Indeed!

I am loving the photos.

This is some great stuff and what I would really enjoy seeing more of around here.

Thanks.

 

[JosephH]

I used a Jensen back in those days as well - absolutely fabulous pack and climbed great.

[JBC]

Great packs those Jensens, got a lot of use out of mine as well. Did you know you can that they are being made again. Yep, you can get a brand new Jensen - made right here in Washington state (Monroe):

 

http://rivendellmountainworks.com/

 

[Dane]

OK Mix and match a bit. But I'll scan some new ones in over the holiday weekend if everyone isn't sick of it by then.

 

 

Here is a "new" Jensen off the original patterns by local Eric Hardy who now owns and sews Rivendell. Same one in the old Chouinard catalog. Galiber Makalu dbls and a Chouinard.

 

 

This is a copy of Don's personal pack a lwt version in Red. And a original McInnes axe that Jensen liked so much. Although only close as Doug Robinson told me Don's favorite was the hammer version. Galibier Havernals of course.

 

 

Mt. Temple East Ridge...'72...any body remember Sacs Millet?

 

 

Just so you know I wasn't always chained to a bench.

 

Late Fall summit on Libery Cap in '74 after doing Ptarmigan in hard black ice conditions. And the first time I totally trashed my feet. Walked down from Muir in socks on that one when my feet unthawed. I still consider that one my best alpine climb. Two Jensen's in this picture, Reg and the Giant..

 

 

Libery Cap again in '78 on a guided trip..Jensen in the forground.

 

 

Kolfachs and SMC rigids, April 80 at a hanging stance low on the North Butt of Hunter.

 

 

And the ridge we bailed on in '76.

 

 

And one more of a Jensen...on Deltaform NG in '74 I think. Mixed in Chouinard rigids and Dachsteins

 

 

Who's next?

[JBC]

Mt. Temple East Ridge...'72...any body remember Sacs Millet?

 

 

Had one of those as well, in fact my first 'real climbing' pack was a blue Sacs Millet much like the one in the photo.

 

Jim

[RafalA]

Wow it's inspiring to look at all this!

 

I think I'll keep my gear so in 30yrs I have pics like these to share.

 

Thank you so much for posting these!

Edited November 24, 2010 by RafalA

[Dane]

Ha, Ha....I could't keep my gear more than a season or two at best! Either just had to get something "better" or would wear it out. I owned 4 Jensen packs between '73 and '78...three of those had holes in them from hauling when I sold them. The last I bought well used for $40 and never did take it out. Sold it for $500 on Ebay and bought two new ones in 2007!

 

It isn't ice but it is a Jensen. Giant Jensen on the NW face of Half Dome '74.

 

 

 

 

The original pack pictured was a Millet 340 iirc (how is that for useless trivia) we thought they were the sheeeet in '71 @ $37.00 in REI. Never used it again after '73, even thought it was a truely great alpine sack. My '79 REI catalog says it is a Millet #166 and was $82.50 by then.

 

Ode to a great climbing ruck! It was my first proper climbing sac as well. I have another picture of it some where I find later.

 

 

Another one with a Wilderness Experience alpine pack and another great pack..late Dec 1980. Some might recognise the location. Likely one of the last intentional over nights on Polar Circus.

 

 

 

Base of the Rote Fluh and Hinterstoisser Traverse, Eiger '78.

By then we were all using the Lowe Expedition packs that would dominate the market for a few years. Wore a few these out as well.

 

 

 

When you look at these pictures think about two things...how much harder it was to haul a proper camera around back then and how hard it is to hang onto ANYTHING for 30 years!

[RafalA]

Hehe, well said Dane! What I meant, and perhaps didn't really make clear, was that it's really cool to see the old tools, boots and other gear and, with the knowledge that much of the ice in the Rockies was FA'd with stuff like that, compare it to what we use now. (I use the ice here as it's the best comparison for me.)

 

I'm curious to see in what light we'll see, for example, Nomics in 30 years.

[JBC]

Base of the Rote Fluh and Hinterstoisser Traverse, Eiger '78.

By then we were all using the Lowe Expedition packs that would dominate the market for a few years. Wore a few these out as well.

 

I remember the Lowe as being a real pig! Carried about as well as a sack of potatoes. Never owned one (thnak god) but borrowed one froma buddy for a season.

 

You did the Eiger NW with one - NOW I am impressed!

 

Jim

[Alex]

Sacs Millet are still Millet

 

http://www.millet.fr/international/