50 meter Skinny Rope?

[Coldfinger]

Been thinking about picking up a 50 meter 9.2mm instead of a 60 meter mainly for ice and alpine because:

 

1. It's cheaper

2. It's 18 ounces lighter

3. I guess it'd be more compact and easier to handle.

4. It'd only be less than 10 meters shorter if I brought another rope for rapping.

5. Most ice and alpine routes don't require 60 meter raps (or even 30 meters) a ton or at all.

 

Any thoughts?

[jshamster]

I use 50m doubles quite a bit, and love them.

your no. 3 is the main thing i like about them. way less rope to mess with

when doing a bunch of pitches under or around 50m.

often in the alpine you don't really need longer because pitches wander, and

it is less to deal with while simulclimbing.

 

cheers

jimbo

[Coldfinger]

Thanks! I listed them in order, $$ talks bs walks!

[trainwreck]

I guess I don't really know what kind of ice/alpine you're doing but I wouldn't ever go shorter than 60m and I think 70m is really the ticket. A 70m 8.9 Mammut Serenity is a fantastic single line that's light enough and easy to handle, if you're not bringing a rap line you'll get 37m rappels off of it.

 

I find with alpine I almost always end up simul-climbing to get to stations so I'd be really hesitant to shorten my pitches down, more belays equal way more time on the route. Same holds true for ice, if the climb is 110m, you'll easily do it in two pitches rather than three.

 

In my experience with alpiney raps (think bailing off) the longer the raps the better. Less gear left behind and more flexibility in finding stations.

 

YMMV

[Coldfinger]

Yeah I can get a 50m twin rope cheap or just use 6mm cord when I want to have longer raps, seems like rope drag becomes a major issue the longer the pitch and the more it wanders.

 

Thanks!

[OlympicMtnBoy]

I use a short skinny rope (30 or 40 meters) for more moderate routes where you are likely to encounter a lot of easy terrain or simul climbing but only have a short step or two of difficult bits shorter than your rope length. A lot of routes in the Olympics have short steps but rarely multiple severe pitches in a row for example. Same with many volcano routes.

 

If the route is going to involve a lot of pitched out climbing or long sections of water ice then I will opt for a longer rope (60 or 70m).

 

The descent may also dictate how long a rope you need for the raps as well, but most of the moderate routes I'm thinking of also have fairly moderate descents that don't involve multiple long rappels in a row.

[eldiente]

Go with a skinny 70M and bring a 5 or 6mm for the raps. Although I was never good at Math, if you add the weight-up, this is the lightest system way to go.

[Coldfinger]

Not sure I can afford a 70m, nevermind 70m of 5.5 spectra cord! What's the weight per meter of the 6mm perlon?

 

Can get a 50m 9.2 for $145 tho. What's rapping on 6mm like and how do you set up the ropes and pull on rappel?

 

Already got a Beal Rando and LOVE it but it is a little short!

Edited November 17, 2010 by Coldfinger

[Dane]

60m 7.7mm Beal ice twin. I like them a lot for ice and alpine.

 

Buy one and you have a good 30m alpine set up. If you like it buy the 2nd.

 

I wouldn't suggest going back to a 50m rope. Simply because most everything that is fixed will be a 60 these days.

[Coldfinger]

Yeah that Ice Twin cord has always had me ...! That's one reason I bought my Rando......

 

Have the 9.4 Stinger and LOVE it for rock, the problem is that's the only rope I have and I will NOT use a rock cord anywhere near picks and pons.

 

So, being broke I need to find SOMETHING to climb on for the upcoming ice season and eventually alpine too. Can't afford two twins, but can barely afford a 50m 9.2 Sterling Nano for $145. The twins go for $160 on up each. I've always climbed ice on one line, so that doesn't bother me one bit, easier to belay too.

 

The funny part is I'm always spending $$ to save weight (example=titanium pot), but this is less money and 18 ounces savings.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Coldfinger

[jhamaker]

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I dissagree. I can think of a *few* 60M raps, but not many, and not winter rts. Examples?

[DPS]

I have gone back to using 50 meter half ropes for alpine and ice climbing after years of using 60s. I really don't miss the extra 10 meters and enjoy the weight savings. I think it says something that Vince Anderson and Steve House climbed with a 50 meter half rope and a 55 meter tag line for the raps on the Rupal Face.

[Coldfinger]

I hear ya both, my titanium pot is giving me the evil eye!

[grinter]

I've done several raps with a 60m 9mm lead rope and 6mm perlon tagline. It hasn't failed on me but I do have reservations about the setup. I always use the eurodeathknot to join the two, just make sure to cinch the knot down really well and leave some tails. The different diameters make the knot look like its going to slip but I've seen it hold solidly enough times to trust it. I always set it up so the larger diameter rope is through the rap ring and tag line is pulled but there can be issues. The tag line can be finicky when thrown, after a few misadventures we started keeping the tag line coiled or bundled in a jacket and feeding it out as we rappeled. Another thing to note is that the 6mm will stretch and feed through your device differently. The last time I rappeled on this setup I watched the results of this while my buddy rapped. The tag line went through the device faster and the EDK slipped through the webbing so the tag line was loading the anchor instead of the larger diameter rope. It was a little spooky to watch the knot slide around. By the time my friend was at the bottom the EDK had moved ten feet and now the larger diameter lead line needed to be pulled.

 

For the record, I prefer climbing on a twin setup if I want the option of full rope length rappels.

 

equal stretch = not sketch

[Dane]

I can think of a *few* 60M raps, but not many, and not winter rts. Examples?

 

Polar Cirus, Weeeping Wall, Curtain Call, Snivelling gully ect.

 

All of which I have also done on a 45m rope. Way easier to carry lwt twins these days.

 

V threads can make raps any length you want. If there is ice of course. 45M ropes were the standard for years. Then 50m and now 60m.

 

45m ropes are great to climb on and carry. Nothing shorter beats a 70m rap. Always a trade off. Climb where others do and the raps are likely to be fixed (v threads or rock) and you end up short without a 60m rope today generally.

 

If you are on routes that require full length raps, but few truly do.

 

pricing? Try justropes.com

I have been happy with there prices....sale prices are good.

 

If you are only going to have ONE rope....do yourself a favor and buy a 60 no matter what it is.

[galpinist]

The tag line went through the device faster and the EDK slipped through the webbing so the tag line was loading the anchor instead of the larger diameter rope. It was a little spooky to watch the knot slide around. By the time my friend was at the bottom the EDK had moved ten feet and now the larger diameter lead line needed to be pulled.

 

I haven't used a tag line so I'm not an expert but I thought the idea was to set it up so that you're basically doing a single strand rappel on the rope and the knot on the rope holds the weight. If the tag line is supporting the climber's weight then I think you've already messed up?

 

Here's an image I found on the web...

 

[eldiente]

The above picture is the correct way to rig this. This is the method I use for my 5.5mm joined to a 9.2mm lead line. Works great!

 

-Nate

 

 

[Coldfinger]

Sweet thread guys! Thanks and keep it up......

 

Would anyone use a 4mm cord since it is just there for pulling the rope? What do you use: a 5 or 6mm or something else?

[John Frieh]

If you lead line gets stuck you have to relead on your skinny cord... or worse: have to continue down just rapping the skinny line. How small are you willing to go?

[grinter]

I like it, your photo certainly solves the problem, although I imagine all those and knots and the biner might like to get wedged in inopportune spots while pulling the ropes.

 

This only happened after we exhausted our rap rings and were rapping directly off of the webbing (yes, I realize this is not ideal) I think normally the EDK jams against the rap ring and you have a setup similar to your photo without all the fanciwork. Its probably possible that the knot could get jammed in the ring as well which would be no good, but isn't that a potential problem with the above setup as well.

 

Like I said before, I've dangled off of it on multiple occasions, it works, but there are issues and other setups that I would rather use.

[Coldfinger]

Well keep talking guys, found a deal on a Sterling Nano 9.2mm I couldn't pass up.....

[eldiente]

5mm or 6mm seems to be a good size for the pull line. In a pinch you can still rap on 5mm or 6mm, it sucks but I've done it several times. Also, the skinny pull lines can be a real whore to keep tangle free, anything smaller than 5mm and I think you'd be spending a lot of time sorting out ropes.

 

Here's one that hasn't been mentioned yet for moderate terrain. Take an 8mm rope and fold it in half and simul on it. When you need to do a full belayed pitch, unfold the rope and use it like a normal lead line. For the raps, tie the 8mm to your tag line. Super light! Just don't fall very often, I feel OK leading on a single 8mm line but I'd retire it after a whipper.

 

-Nate

 

 

[OlympicMtnBoy]

This only happened after we exhausted our rap rings and were rapping directly off of the webbing (yes, I realize this is not ideal) I think normally the EDK jams against the rap ring and you have a setup similar to your photo without all the fanciwork.

 

I sense thread drift . . but . . .

 

That's similar to the theory Brian Ellis mistakenly used in May when rappelling from Serenity Crack in Yosemite. His jammed knot DID work it's way through the aluminum rappel rings and he did not survive.

 

Also realize that as your skinny rope slid through your webbing anchor it was generating friction that could potentially cut through the webbing. No knot slipping needed for your anchor to fail then. If you are rapping off webbing you definitely want to use the method pictured above to ensure your rope can't rub on the anchor. I've used it fine with a 5.5 mil spectra pull line but only where I was fairly sure it wouldn't catch on anything, otherwise I'd make shorter raps with one rope.

[NoahT]

Would anyone use a 4mm cord since it is just there for pulling the rope?

 

I've used 5mm for pulling, and when it gets wet it gets super stretchy. MAkes it hard to pull...4mm prolly even worse.

[mountainmandoug]

I've not done this, I don't have a tag-line set up, but I've read about rapping just off the webbing without a ring using a single rope and tag line with the webbing tied off into a tiny loop that the knot will jam in.

 

Imagine tying your rap anchor with about six inches extra length, than tying an overhand knot on a bight to make a small loop that the rope runs through. Probably want to tie your overhand a bit loose and than sort of snug it down onto the rope. Than I think you should rappel with both ropes through your device relying on the knot jamming in the loop to hold it all in place.

 

That sounds sketchy as hell when I describe it. Maybe I'll have to rig it up from a tree branch and play with it to see how it works.

 

I'm a fan of twins or halves. It is spendy to own many ropes though.