Ah, the smell of fresh petrochemicals....

[tvashtarkatena]

Just back from my little vacation in Northern Alberta

 

Krupp Reclaimer, 2,400 tons, 560' long, 25 square miles a year by PatGallagherArt, on Flickr

 

Syncrude Refinery, Fort McMurray by PatGallagherArt, on Flickr

 

 

Strip mining for oil near Fort McMurray by PatGallagherArt, on Flickr

 

Last one's not mine, BTW

Edited September 19, 2010 by tvashtarkatena

[wayne]

Ick, Glad I have a Prius

[tvashtarkatena]

1.7 trillion barrels of oily goodness.

[tvashtarkatena]

Suddenly, I'm a big fan of nuclear power.

[ivan]

if we could somehow harness the power of just how fucking COOL i am we'd be set, you know, like...as a civilization and such...

[Hugh Conway]

you one of the hookers they fly in?

[Fairweather]

Gotta kinda laugh when amateur photogs start putting watermarks and copyrights on their Polaroids.

[tvashtarkatena]

Does anyone ever know what the hell you're going on about?

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Of course, as a tea bagger, irrelevancy is probably something one gets used to pretty quickly.

[denalidave]

Ick, Glad I have a Prius

Really, you eco-terrorist... Pruis not so green linky

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Sure wish I owned one when it's time to fill up the tank.

[tvashtarkatena]

Embodied energy is important, but that piece had so many immediate, glaring inaccuracies that I wouldn't wipe your ass with it.

 

The Hummer piece was shot down years ago as garbage. Citing was my first clue that this was just more blogger bullshit. The claim about all these 40mpg cars out there was another. Yes, in 1990 the CRX got 40mpg...so all ya gotta do is buy a 1990 CRX in excellent condition and you're set.

 

 

[JoshK]

Which is why we need full electrics ASAP! The benefits go far beyond simply reducing fossil fuel use. An all electric drivetrain can be made far more simplistic than a hybrid or IC drivetrain. You can also do away with the obnoxious maintenance of IC components - engine oil, filters, belts, plugs, etc. The Nissan Leaf is coming out soon, and I'm hoping it is a big success. I'm also hoping my clunker can keep running long enough that I can buy an all electric replacement when it finally bites the dust. In the mean time, if I absolutely had to buy another car, I'd probably go with some sort of clean diesel. They all have their downsides, but given the choices, I think that is currently the best bet.

[tvashtarkatena]

PS: Most 'embodied energy' pieces hail from an anti-regulatory source. Vehicle life, what's included or not included, and just plain ignorant assumptions or deliberate misinformation about what's included or not in the calculations is the norm. There are very few credible studies out there.

[tvashtarkatena]

Electric or natural gas. Electric would allow us to power cars with hydro, nuclear, wind and solar - no in service GHG emissions.

 

Nat gas would almost entirely eliminate the need for strip mining for tar, and it burns a lot cleaner.

 

The hydrogen economy is utter bullshit, of course, as is the idea that we're going to give up our cars, although reducing their use massively is certainly possible - that would probably improve the quality of our lives. Does anyone like driving anymore?

[tvashtarkatena]

Electric cars: We've come a lot way, baby...or not....

 

Electric cars: then and now

 

Edited September 19, 2010 by tvashtarkatena

[rob]

You guys and your fucking cars. The road is for bikes.

[murraysovereign]

Nat gas would almost entirely eliminate the need for strip mining for tar, and it burns a lot cleaner.

 

But BIG OIL is gonna divert all the NG to Fort McMurray to be used in extracting and upgrading the bitumen, so there'll be none left for you to use in your stupid gay little "clean-burning natural gas" car. The only NG they'll let you use is the stuff that's been bound up in the synthetic crude they're refining into gasoline. They're closing the loop, and shutting out all you muskeg-hugging hippies.

 

Bwahahahaha!!!

[JoshK]

Hopefully the Tesla Model S delivers...

 

http://www.plugincars.com/tesla-model-s/review

 

Energy density of battery storage is definitely a limiting factor, but I believe over time even this will improve. Most of us here fall in the 2% (my guess) of consumers for which a 100 mile range would not be enough. The vast majority of the auto driving public could get by with far, far less, especially once a charging infrastructure starts to develop. If we conjured the political will to charge people for the true impact of IC vehicle usage (carbon output, etc.) the financial benefit of electrics would be even more impressive compared to IC. We've gotten about all we can get from IC, it's time to suck it up and move on to new technology and save the fuel for uses we can't replace with electric power, such as jet travel and making plastic. Burning it up in millions of cars is a waste.

[tvashtarkatena]

You guys and your fucking cars. The road is for bikes.

 

Sore loser.

[murraysovereign]

... Most of us here fall in the 2% (my guess) of consumers for which a 100 mile range would not be enough. The vast majority of the auto driving public could get by with far, far less, especially once a charging infrastructure starts to develop.

 

I'll bet even the 2% could get away with 100-mile-range vehicles for a lot, if not the majority, of their driving. On those occasions when you need a longer range vehicle, you can rent one for pretty cheap. Most people don't need to own a long-range vehicle and drive it every day: they just need access to one from time to time.

[Fairweather]

Electric cars: We've come a lot way, baby...or not....

 

Electric cars: then and now

 

That's an interesting piece. Hell, I don't care what's pushing my wheels--as long as they're my wheels and not property of the collective. But if coal is ultimately going to continue generating half of the electricity that's out there, I don't see where that would constitute a win for the environment--not to mention the lithium, cadmium, lead, and the digging required to mine a nearly exhausted supply of nickel.

 

It seems to me that electric motorcycles and scooters would be highly marketable--even in the US.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Fairweather

[tvashtarkatena]

Nat gas would almost entirely eliminate the need for strip mining for tar, and it burns a lot cleaner.

 

But BIG OIL is gonna divert all the NG to Fort McMurray to be used in extracting and upgrading the bitumen, so there'll be none left for you to use in your stupid gay little "clean-burning natural gas" car. The only NG they'll let you use is the stuff that's been bound up in the synthetic crude they're refining into gasoline. They're closing the loop, and shutting out all you muskeg-hugging hippies.

 

Bwahahahaha!!!

 

Nah...they got plenty of NG and H/CO

to fire up the old reduction/refinery/SAGD boilers already...with leftovers.

Edited September 19, 2010 by tvashtarkatena

[Fairweather]

I'm not sure if the aviation industry could find a substitute for good old Jet-A.

[tvashtarkatena]

Electric cars: We've come a lot way, baby...or not....

 

Electric cars: then and now

 

That's an interesting piece. Hell, I don't care what's pushing my wheels--as long as they're my wheels and not property of the collective. But if coal is ultimately going to continue generating half of the electricity that's out there, I don't see where that would constitute a win for the environment--not to mention the lithium, cadmium, lead, and the digging required to mine a nearly exhausted supply of nickel.

 

It seems to me that electric motorcycles and scooters would be highly marketable--even in the US.

 

Yeah, god forbid we should invest in more public transportation.

 

The entire problem is solvable in a few years - lower performance, lighter electric vehicles for city use. It's a public acceptance issue. People are wed to their SUVs, you know, like the one you like to brag about.

 

Re air transport: you don't need to eliminate GHG emissions entirely, you just need to beat them back to sustainable levels.

 

And reducing population...hey, now there's a thought.

[tvashtarkatena]

Re other energy use - home power stations are bullshit due to embodied energy of PV (PV's pretty much for show for anything other than a remote weather station or something), mini wind turbines, and batteries, but passive solar water and space heating would be huge.

Edited September 19, 2010 by tvashtarkatena