Lodestone Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Chad, I just heard October. (I'm very embarrassed to admit that I'd totally forgot about the new version/book coming out) I suspect he'll have some real good new stuff in there too. Maybe Tim will get on with an update. You doing laps tonight? I need to gently work my shoulder. Thanks for the info Bill. I'm looking forward to the new edition. Not going out tonight but I'll be out at BB after work if you'd like to meet up....Gandalf's Grip is calling....(FWIW it'd be a three-some ). Chad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rl23455 Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 The 3.2 version of the 3rd edition is smaller, The 3.1 edition is 7.5x9 inches, the 2nd is more like 6x9. It really should be labeled 4th edition because it has more content, including some closeups of Beacon Rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 your "BEACON ROCK UPDATE" is pretty much an ego drivin interstellar guidebook as far as i'm concerned.... like i said before, you have that " RULING CLASS" mentality like the dumbshit in the oval office. everybody sit down and shut up cause joseph knows better. it's okay for you to broadcast, but not anybody else may indulge. Wow. Did somebody just get slapped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 your "BEACON ROCK UPDATE" is pretty much an ego drivin interstellar guidebook as far as i'm concerned.... like i said before, you have that " RULING CLASS" mentality like the dumbshit in the oval office. everybody sit down and shut up cause joseph knows better. it's okay for you to broadcast, but not anybody else may indulge. Wow. Did somebody just get slapped? joseph hit's back plenty hard... but mostly with utter bullshit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Hmmmm, "mostly with utter bullshit", I suppose so if facts are irrelevant, bullshit, and you just make shit up as you go along. God forbid anyone throw water on the party, like mentioning those inconvenient parking concerns - clearly total bullshit and anyway, you guys and Olson no doubt have all those WSDOT bases covered. And "knows better"? Yeah, I suppose dealing with reality and simple facts can give that appearance in a land-of-the-blind sort of way - but at least my spiel doesn't change from week to week or depend on who I'm talking to. And lawdy! Laws, agencies, gubament men - all the sorts of boogymen and details that can blow anyone's high or self-constructed bubbaland. As for the "Beacon Rock Updates", I'm guessing you've just been having a tough time following along the last couple of years let alone days. Nothing about those updates have never been about ego or me; they've been a public documentation trail to establish at least a semblance of a basis for locals to claim a reasonable stake at the table of a reconstituted CAC - nothing more, nothing less. Since abandoning that effort I don't do them beyond pre-open work issues or safety notices related to changes or rockfall. I could give a rat's ass about 'legacy' or whatever other "bullshit" you seem to imagine, and good lord baby jesus knows I'd have a hard time handling any more friggin' acolytes and disciples. Obviously gonna have to brush up on my man-cult skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 isn't publishing a guidebook a documentation trail to establish a basis for locals to claim a reasonable stake as well??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 PRCs is up on the BRSP shelf and has been ever since it was published. Unfortunately, from '96 - '05, the only thing locals had to show in the way of legacy was breaking the closure, digging out the NW face, bolting above the drinking fountain, and shit-talking 'the man'. Not exactly the 'legacy' you want to head to the table with, particularly when the AF is saying they'll be insisting on 'broad proportional representation' of [responsible] OR/WA climbers at the table (read - not locals). If they reconstituted the CAC tomorrow you guys would get eaten alive by the ensuing politics unless the AF radically changes it's story. What you want is a documentation trail of cooperative work and local investment of time, effort and funds into something tangible the WSP, BRSP, and WDFW can understand, see and document on their side of things if necessary. That and some demonstration that you've taken the time to understand the broader legal, policy, and management context climbing happens in. Again, total bullshit, boring as snot, and entirely inconvenient I know. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 (edited) coming from a man who used to hang signs from buildings that were private property... you've stuck it to the man more than most, did somebody sneak into your house and steal all ur COOL. u could be such a bitchin dude, but u choose to be such a dolt and just talk crap. i respect your opinion, but u preach it like it's gospel. Edited August 25, 2010 by pink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 (edited) isn't ur building climbing documented in an old ROCK and ICE magazine, guess you weren't keen on diatribes back in those days otherwise you would have written your congressman. Edited August 25, 2010 by pink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Yeah, I did that PR stuff, but I also followed it up with a deep dive into the science, environmental treaty law, and politics spending a couple of years involved in getting sanctuaries and protections established. That involved talking to all parties from bureaucrats and politicians to ambassadors and ministers of nations hostile to any form of environmental or species protection. You can't get much done with just a one-dimensional in-your-face approach to this shit. Like any other form of dealing with the law and government - the uninformed and naive get ruthlessly fucked no matter how 'just' or 'fair' their deal is. Seen it happen way too many times. And I suppose it might somehow be warm-fuzzy-and-comfortable to say 'we got fucked by the man' for fourteen years, but I anyway just can't go there or empathize past a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 joseph, i can't wait till you are an old fucking man cause you are gonna be funny as hell to listen too. you are so cryptic, i'm beginning to appreciate it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Hopefully I'll start getting funny sometime soon because my birthday's this week and I'm told I've been old for quite some time. My daughter was home from UW and sitting on the couch with my wife when a trailer from the new George Clooney movie came on; she went "eeewwwwwhhhh, but he's ssoooo old!" Pretty much leaves me a relic no matter how you look at it - and not funny at all yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 this is about a different guide though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 i agree parking is a concern - i'd hope that, in the end, both these areas could be turned into a park and sensible parking established - guidebooks help turn the area into an established and signficant area, worthy of protection, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 that's what i was trying to say, thanks smart guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Possibly, the properties are wholly under the jurisdiction of the BLM which essentially defers all control to the Gorge Commission (GC). There's a pretty good chance they could be convinced at OZ given evidence of pre-Scenic Act climbing, but then again places like the RC could easily sour the water in general with those guys if they decide they don't like all the un-camo'd hardware. I've been around enough dealings with them on the windsurfing and buiding front that I can say you definitely don't want those guys pissed at you. Again, OZ is a done deal, but publishing DZ is a wholly unnecessary risk from my perspective. Obviously an unpopular view and it sounds like those dice are being rolled regardless of any such concerns. [ Edit: and if folks are concerned about the future of OZ then they really should open a dialog with Justin at WSDOT and try to get some more parking and a recognized use status of some sort from WSDOT now that there is some breathing room in the schedule - if you don't ask and work for it they're just as likely as not to cordon off the whole thing with a guard rail when they finally get around to that part of the project again. ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimper Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 I missed this thread while on a road trip with my family. It sure seems like the same 6 or 7 guys yelling right past each other. Allow me to be the 8th, then. I think the main reason people wanted DZ/FS routes to be published is so that bolts would not be added to routes that have already been led without them. We may not agree on the name, but we do seem to agree on that. Publicly proving the existence of these routes is critical because probably 50-75% of the routes are already growing moss as Bill and his crew of farsiders have turned their attention to the Clackamas crag they post about elsewhere. I bet that in 5 years no more than 30 of the routes will even be recognizable as such, even assuming they get published in olson's guide. One stroll through Broughton's 12 walls shows just how many routes have disappeared under moss after a couple years of neglect. If the crag gets published, odds are much better that the routes stay in their current condition and don't slowly morph into Ozone routes (which i think are great by themselves, but have brought so many sport climbers that i never reallly climb there anymore. then again, we all knew this would happen at ozone and we have no cause for complaint) Go to www.mountainproject.com and you can see Adam Winslow posted 67 routes under the name "the far side." The photos prove what a chosspile it is, so don't bother, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 (edited) I missed this thread while on a road trip with my family. It sure seems like the same 6 or 7 guys yelling right past each other. Allow me to be the 8th, then. I think the main reason people wanted DZ/FS routes to be published is so that bolts would not be added to routes that have already been led without them. We may not agree on the name, but we do seem to agree on that. Publicly proving the existence of these routes is critical because probably 50-75% of the routes are already growing moss as Bill and his crew of farsiders have turned their attention to the Clackamas crag they post about elsewhere. I bet that in 5 years no more than 30 of the routes will even be recognizable as such, even assuming they get published in olson's guide. One stroll through Broughton's 12 walls shows just how many routes have disappeared under moss after a couple years of neglect. If the crag gets published, odds are much better that the routes stay in their current condition and don't slowly morph into Ozone routes (which i think are great by themselves, but have brought so many sport climbers that i never reallly climb there anymore. then again, we all knew this would happen at ozone and we have no cause for complaint) Go to www.mountainproject.com and you can see Adam Winslow posted 67 routes under the name "the far side." The photos prove what a chosspile it is, so don't bother, right? I'm with what Bryan says. Except, for myself, if some new bolts wind up here or there on unbolted climbs, it's not only not the end of the world, it would most likely be a good thing in many locations. That's my opinion only of course. I've said this exact thing to Jim and he stares at me like he doesn't know who I am and proceeds to explain why that shouldn't occur and how having a place where one needs to confront total gear routes near PDX as a training ground for young climbers who don't know that it's good to challenge oneself without chickening out with bolts etc etc on and on. LOL! Seriously:-) I understand his point perfectly too, and have been supportive of it as much as possible. As far as the name.... it's just a name. Jim would like to keep it The Far Side, so I'm sticking with that as he found the place and also, one way or another, was responsible for the turn of events that led us all individually to it. I will add that it seemed to have taken me @30 years to start calling the route called "Cruisemaster", which I named when we did it, to Jims revised name for it "Crusin'" (Beacon Rock). He had asked me my opinion about the change way back then - explaining that there were too many "*-masters" already) Rockmaster, Couchmaster, etc,etc) and I'd said "sure, hey whatever", I was fine with it but changing inside my own mind, it turned out, was not that easy. ...so ...whatever! It's all good. Also - Tim's saying that he still has copies of the PRC 3rd edition, but that retailers just need to be ordering it. He also says that the next rev is coming later, and not in October. So if you want the 3rd edition, and it's not a bad idea as I've seen entire cliffs dropped out of newer editions, I'd go get it now, and if they are out, ask the retailer to order it for you. The next ed. will have some new places, but that doesn't mean that all of the old ones in 3rd edition will still be there. ..if that makes sense.... Edited September 7, 2010 by billcoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Jim would like to keep it The Far Side, so I'm sticking with that as he found the place and also, one way or another, was responsible for the turn of events that led us all individually to it. Did you not read above? Jim did not show the place to the first people to climb there in over 20 years back in 07. They found it on there own. Jim had nothing to do with it. He showed it to you maybe but not the others. Jim admits he did not name it 20 years ago either. So Snoop (Jon) and company named it Drop Zone. 2 years passed before they could be Jim to come over from the Ozone and check out what they had been doing. Then Jim started to climb there and "renamed" it. Lets just be clear about the time line. PS. Thanks for all the work out there. I personaly know what that feels like. Even though I dont really like climbing there, I certainly respect it. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsroll Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 why not do a do a full edition with all of the cliffs that were featured in the older editions? Ya it would be a bit thicker but who cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 why not do a do a full edition with all of the cliffs that were featured in the older editions? Ya it would be a bit thicker but who cares. i thought some got dropped for political reasons - wasn't madrone in the first edition for example, but then dropped b/c of its closure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 why not do a do a full edition with all of the cliffs that were featured in the older editions? Ya it would be a bit thicker but who cares. i thought some got dropped for political reasons - wasn't madrone in the first edition for example, but then dropped b/c of its closure? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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