Checat Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Don't attempt to put up sport routes in trad areas and you'll be fine (and the recent chopping drama was about a mixed route, not a sport one). Elitist ownership of public land. And its not just as elitist to bolt a line thus setting a sport precedence before all boltless trad applications have been exhausted? Its ok because more people clip bolts and there is safety in that mass of humanity huh? Quote
kevbone Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Elitist ownership of public land. Elitist ownership is thinking you can gratuitously drill sport-routes anywhere you feel like ON PUBLIC LAND, leaving your selfish metallic mess in your wake ON PUBLIC LAND, rather than practicing restraint by top-roping or "developing" clean lines and walking away if you can't. A sport-climb is just like a whole wall of tossed empty beer cans you can't throw away without making a lot of effort. It goes both way my friend. Telling other potential developers that they cant bolt simply because someone has a "vision" is also ownership. Quote
el jefe Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 You need to give me a lap tour before I leave on the 21st. How about later this week? Ivan is giving tours of his lap? You South end guys are strange Teaching doesn't pay much so a little extra income is always good. hard to imagine ivan earns much money giving lap dances, but there are indeed some strange folk out there at beacon... Quote
ivan Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 you'd be suprised - folks'll pay alot for a good piece of prime-rib like me Quote
kevbone Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Don't attempt to put up sport routes in trad areas and you'll be fine (and the recent chopping drama was about a mixed route, not a sport one). Elitist ownership of public land. And its not just as elitist to bolt a line thus setting a sport precedence before all boltless trad applications have been exhausted? Its ok because more people clip bolts and there is safety in that mass of humanity huh? Why do trad applications have to come first? Quote
Raindawg Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 It goes both way my friend. Telling other potential developers that they cant bolt simply because someone has a "vision" is also ownership. Why do trad applications h]ave to come first? Let me put it in terms you can understand: it's the difference between throwing your beer cans out in the woods or taking them home so the next guy doesn't have to encounter or experience them and hopefully you leave the area relatively pristine for your grandchildren. Climbing clean and trad isn't ownership....it's picking up one's own mess. Quote
kevbone Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Climbing clean No such thing in the area I live in. Ever heard of moss? Quote
LostCamKenny Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Elitist ownership of public land. Elitist ownership is thinking you can gratuitously drill sport-routes anywhere you feel like ON PUBLIC LAND, leaving your selfish metallic mess in your wake ON PUBLIC LAND, rather than practicing restraint by top-roping or "developing" clean lines and walking away if you can't. A sport-climb is just like a whole wall of tossed empty beer cans you can't throw away without making a lot of effort. though i am reluctant to get involved in this thread any more i have to say that i couldn't agree more with the precipitation hound, but like OW's signature alludes to there is a need for sport climbing. Quote
billcoe Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Greetings Kevbone, I have a humanitarian task for you - this however is not mandatory nor will I in any manner compel you to honor against your will but I was compelled to write to you under a humanitarian ground. I am Mrs.Mokhtar Khairul, I resides in Bangkok-Thailand but I have been diagnosed with Oesophageal cancer and now I am 64yrs still battling the with cancer which has defiled all forms of medical treatment and right now I have only a short time to live. I am very rich but was never generous, so I have decided to give alms to charity organizations, less privileged people, orphanages, widows and more especially to those that are devastated by FLOODS and EARTHQUAKE but I cannot do this myself anymore because of my health. I have given most of my assets to my immediate family members and just recently I asked members of my family to give some money to charity organizations and they refused and kept the money for themselves counting days for me to die so that they can inherit my hard earned money. But I have a huge cash deposit of money with a finance company in Thialand and I will want you to help me collect this money at any cost and dispatch it to charity organizations, less privileged people, orphanages and widows in your country because i am currently undergoing cancer treatment in America. Consider this and get back at me as soon as possible and I want you to always remember me in your daily prayers because of my up coming cancer surgery though I am not afraid of death hence I know where I am going and any delay in your reply will give me room in sourcing for another individual for this same purpose. Until I hear from you, my dreams will rest squarely on your shoulders. Regards, Mrs.Mokhtar Khairul. Quote
Checat Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Don't attempt to put up sport routes in trad areas and you'll be fine (and the recent chopping drama was about a mixed route, not a sport one). Elitist ownership of public land. And its not just as elitist to bolt a line thus setting a sport precedence before all boltless trad applications have been exhausted? Its ok because more people clip bolts and there is safety in that mass of humanity huh? Why do trad applications have to come first? Because there is already an F-Load of Sport Climbing Crags. Everywhere. In every state. You do not have to look very hard or drive very far to find sport climbing if there is climbing to be had. Trad, and especially Bolt-less trad is very difficult to find because everybody goes around turning them into sport crags. I'm not saying all crags should go boltless. I have bolted in the past and will bolt a bunch in the near and bright future, but if there is an opportunity for boltless climbing, even if it means making a potential 100 route area, a a 70 - 80 route bolt-less area, take the opportunity to find out what bolt -less trad is all about> add some variety to the mix. If ozone is right there whats so wrong with having Dropzone be its boltless companion? Couldn't Spring have been a great destination with only the crack climbs involved? Doesn't Elgin have the potential to be crack climbing only if the right people had there hands on it? And with all this stuff, it shouldn't just be about what land management policies are in place. The truth of the situation is climbers are self-policing and bolt in wilderness areas all the time, so why would it be so bad to not bolt in a place where you technically can? Quote
billcoe Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Out of respect to Lance, I suggest we take this bolting controversy question to this location: http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/952229/Re_Shiny_new_bolt_on_Castle_Ro#Post952229 Thus may we eventually learn how adults discuss such things. Quote
ivan Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 another shot for the beacon-sucks crowd by bill, who agrees that it sucks too Quote
billcoe Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 Looks like you need some bolts there Ivan........ Quote
billcoe Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 Doesn't Elgin have the potential to be crack climbing only if the right people had there hands on it? Wasn't a bolt there in 1976. And with all this stuff, it shouldn't just be about what land management policies are in place. The truth of the situation is climbers are self-policing and bolt in wilderness areas all the time, so why would it be so bad to not bolt in a place where you technically can? HEAR HIM!!!! HEAR HIM!!!! HEAR HIM MY BROTHERS!!!! Quote
billcoe Posted May 3, 2010 Posted May 3, 2010 another shot for the beacon-sucks crowd by bill, who agrees that it sucks too Guess who fell next placement up right after this picture was taken when the classic but sketchy 1950s/1960's Austri Alpin Eurotrash soft iron pin I'd volunteered to be fixed, after looking good for over a min or 2 after full Volkswagon sized weight transfer, just popped under the strain? Still, it didn't suck at all. Sorry to say that I had my hands full of flying Volkswagen and didn't think to record the moment though. I always figured catching a 6'7" guy like Ivan could be an issue. However, although I did get yoinked up @ 2 feet and the rope seemed to stretch a bit more than normal, I was able to lock it off easily (despite being in a bad belay position all scrunched up to the rock in a semi-hanging belay) and it seemed easy and gentle. Fortunately, the rare pin, one of those above, was already clipped off and saved for another day. ...nice pics of Justin up there! Quote
ivan Posted May 3, 2010 Posted May 3, 2010 you'll like that belay more now bill, should you return - moved it a bit down and right so you can stand on a decent ledge... Quote
LostCamKenny Posted May 3, 2010 Posted May 3, 2010 who said beacon sucks? usually it comes from those who are up in yer neck of the woods - and ivan when he is trying to make a point about it not sucking... Quote
billcoe Posted May 3, 2010 Posted May 3, 2010 who said beacon sucks? I like love Beacon, we all do: but some of the North side routes are so wet and mossy that the banana slugs are fighting over who gets the wet spot....ie, the entire N side. Quote
JosephH Posted May 3, 2010 Posted May 3, 2010 I don't think they were saying Beacon sucks, just that we do. Quote
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