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[Checat]

[quote=LostCamKenny

the gorge is all we have down here

 

speak for yourself and not other Oregonians in terms of the CRG being all that we got.

portlandians then, checat. i don't want to drive 3.5 hrs if i don't have to in order to climb and if one doesn't want to climb in the gorge then that is what you are left with - drive to smiff or drive to washington's crags...

 

I can relate on being a former border jumper. There was a time I may have made an argument that as a former Ashland Oregon climber, with a 1-2 day climbing window Lost Rocks or Castle Crags often won out over heading north or east - then I started going everywhere, realized Oregon's I-5 corridor top to bottom is just as stellar - there are just way more secretive crags with secretive climbers

[ivan]

zero climbers cars other than the red devil at bacon - 30 knot winds n' clouds probably helped make up their coward-hearted constitutions!

You need to give me a lap tour before I leave on the 21st. How about later this week?

would like a partner for sometime this week to finish the last pitch - wanna etch yer name into the history of the mighty b?

 

as for a lap, that'll take most of a day as its iii/iv'ish, so would have to be saturday/sunday - watcha think?

[Pilchuck71]

You need to give me a lap tour before I leave on the 21st. How about later this week?

Ivan is giving tours of his lap?

You South end guys are strange

 

[el jefe]

Wow--I think I've actually gotten dumber while reading through this f-ing ridiculous thread.

 

at least we finally accomplished something here.

[wayne]

It is true and known fact that PDX crag cops have run off many a good climber.

 

:throat clearing noise:

[JosephH]

Scared off many a climber that wasn't up to it is more like it.

[Bumkin]

Ding Ding Round....?

[billcoe]

It is true and known fact that PDX crag cops have run off many a good climber.

 

:throat clearing noise:

 

Wayne, you've lived in both camps, what does your throat clearing noise mean?

[ivan]

he done moved off! (admmitedly after doing damn near everything there was to do in the area already though )

[Peter_Puget]

I made a similar observation post several years ago. What is most interesting to me is that a counter group hasn't risen to the challenge. Certainly a group of guys committed to a different ideal armed with their own "Little Dawgs" could rebolt chopped routes with little effort. (Hell they could easily add bolts to existing routes as they rap off just to piss off the Gods of the Gorge!) Why haven't they? What challenges would they face? Well they would face the guys who want to control climbing in the gorge. What would they win? Relative freedom to put up routes as they see fit in the gorge.

 

The prize is fixed in terms of what it has to offer. The difficulty in wining concessions against the current ruling clique is dependent on how hard they want to fight to preserve their hegemony.

 

When the ruling clique faces new climbers in the gorge it is to their advantage to act as goofy as they can. In short they need to increase the costs relative to the prize. The ruling clique has every reason to act like clowns. (I would use a different term) The crazier they act the better. Make the cost uncertain. Let a guy put up routes and then chop them. The disappointment he will feel will simply help to discourage him even more. It will let him know he isn’t worth shit in the Gorge! When others see just how capricious the Gods can be they will be discouraged from making their own explorations. (See the recent bolt chopping thread for an example of this)

 

[crimper]

i feel like i'm wasting my breath every time i post that this little chopping controversy has been resolved and there is peace in the valley, but lots of you want to maintain the drama, or the impression that there is drama out there.

 

i'm starting to feel bad that i ever took the bait and re-framed the issue once kevbone and bill started knocking it around...i only feel bad because instead of bringing people together in agreement that chopping a friend's route without warning is a bad move - and leaving it at that - there's been all this irrelevant seattle versus portland and oregon versus washington shit-talking...

 

...which i guess is funny to read...so remind me again why i'm complaining???

[Peter_Puget]

Hey crimper it was resolved - no argument..I am merely speculating as to why it ever came about.

 

 

[JosephH]

Don't attempt to put up sport routes in trad areas and you'll be fine (and the recent chopping drama was about a mixed route, not a sport one).

[el jefe]

there are mixed routes (i.e., gear + bolts) at beacon, joseph. is it okay to put up a mixed route there? plenty of examples already in existence.

[Peter_Puget]

there are mixed routes (i.e., gear + bolts) at beacon, joseph. is it okay to put up a mixed route there? plenty of examples already in existence.

 

On your knees boy what you address the Gods...show some fuckin' respect.

[ivan]

there are mixed routes (i.e., gear + bolts) at beacon, joseph. is it okay to put up a mixed route there? plenty of examples already in existence.

yes, it is completly fine to have mixed routes at beacon - some of the best routes there have bolts/fixed pins - blownout, pipeline headwall, s'wulf, shit, even the corner!

[el jefe]

there are mixed routes (i.e., gear + bolts) at beacon, joseph. is it okay to put up a mixed route there? plenty of examples already in existence.

 

On your knees boy what you address the Gods...show some fuckin' respect.

 

who are you calling "boy"? look in the mirror if you want to see a boy, peter.

[JosephH]

There are plenty of mixed routes at Beacon; of course there is also a route every six feet over the entire south face at Beacon as well, so almost by definition most new route opportunity is happening on the NW face or on some of the more dangerous ground N of YW.

[ivan]

there's still plums to be picked in the arena of doom where the original dodd's jam exits (ya'll can have it! ) and the area around riverside n' the new village route too - the w side is so overgrown now of course that any ascent over there qualifies as a fa in my book!

[JosephH]

there's still plums to be picked in the arena of doom where the original dodd's jam exits (ya'll can have it! ) and the area around riverside n' the new village route too - the w side is so overgrown now of course that any ascent over there qualifies as a fa in my book!

 

As in overgrown by poison oak - bring your plastic underwear.

[billcoe]

I made a similar observation post several years ago. What is most interesting to me is that a counter group hasn't risen to the challenge. Certainly a group of guys committed to a different ideal armed with their own "Little Dawgs" could rebolt chopped routes with little effort. (Hell they could easily add bolts to existing routes as they rap off just to piss off the Gods of the Gorge!) Why haven't they? What challenges would they face? Well they would face the guys who want to control climbing in the gorge. What would they win? Relative freedom to put up routes as they see fit in the gorge.

 

The prize is fixed in terms of what it has to offer. The difficulty in wining concessions against the current ruling clique is dependent on how hard they want to fight to preserve their hegemony.

 

When the ruling clique faces new climbers in the gorge it is to their advantage to act as goofy as they can. In short they need to increase the costs relative to the prize. The ruling clique has every reason to act like clowns. (I would use a different term) The crazier they act the better. Make the cost uncertain. Let a guy put up routes and then chop them. The disappointment he will feel will simply help to discourage him even more. It will let him know he isn’t worth shit in the Gorge! When others see just how capricious the Gods can be they will be discouraged from making their own explorations. (See the recent bolt chopping thread for an example of this)

 

Maybe all that's just too much angst PP. Certainly if someone went to Broughtons and rap bolted an A4 line, the bolts would be pulled quickly. ( LINK TO BREAKING NEWS AT BROUGHTONS ) That's a very expensive proposition. Right now, there are a few "secret" areas around. Some are rife with bolts, and some are hard rock long crack climbs. In fact, the crack climbing area has been infested by sportos (you know who you are, and you know I'm kidding on that infestation comment there LOL). However, they are doing new routes, at a new area. Who the hell are the old f*s to tell them they can't do the new 5.12 sport arete route when there are still 300' splitter cracks on either side as yet unclimbed? The travel is far enough that the old guys don't creak up there often, and when they do, maybe they walk past going tsk tsk, but REALLY would prefer to spend the day climbing virgin splitters and not screwing around all day with a hard to get on sport climb. To what end would that be to mess with it anyway? The old f*s told them about the new spot, and they are friends. The bolts there make no difference and effect no one in any way if they chose to not climb it because they are cough* old *cough* and fat* cough*. It's all good. Who cares ? No one.

 

That is a different thing than showing up at an old, established area like Beacon, where 60 plus years of tradition already exist, and bolting an arete between 2 classic cracks which no one has ever done. If that's what you are discussing there, I would think that cost, and public scorn like at the Broughtons thread, would be the big discouragement.

[kevbone]

Don't attempt to put up sport routes in trad areas and you'll be fine (and the recent chopping drama was about a mixed route, not a sport one).

 

Elitist ownership of public land.

[denalidave]

You need to give me a lap tour before I leave on the 21st. How about later this week?

Ivan is giving tours of his lap?

You South end guys are strange

Teaching doesn't pay much so a little extra income is always good.

[Raindawg]

Elitist ownership of public land.

 

Elitist ownership is thinking you can gratuitously drill sport-routes anywhere you feel like ON PUBLIC LAND, leaving your selfish metallic mess in your wake ON PUBLIC LAND, rather than practicing restraint by top-roping or "developing" clean lines and walking away if you can't.

A sport-climb is just like a whole wall of tossed empty beer cans you can't throw away without making a lot of effort.

[Pilchuck71]

At least the sense of humor is still intact!