JosephH Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 As per Pink's request, Peregrine monitoring journal entries can be found posted here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 holy sweet batman!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 "16:20 - Both falcons disappear behind Beacon" the birds wouldn't happen to be referred to as "cheech" n "chong" eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 so why do you monitor so early in the morning? do yo think the birds know that they are being watched? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostCamKenny Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 so why do you monitor so early in the morning? the birds like to avoid the crowds at fuckbucks so they are usually active in the morning after their triple shot machiato with whipped cream, nutmeg and sprinkles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 the birds like to avoid the crowds If that were so, they would not nest at Beacon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostCamKenny Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 kevin, see here... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Here Kevin: Kennys post explained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinp Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Joe will u be the sole author of this journal? How often do u plan to monitor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 23, 2010 Author Share Posted February 23, 2010 Justin, Yes, so it doesn't become like this thread. I monitor as often as I can and post up a link, but I'm pretty slammed at work. Will probably get out a couple of times a month and hopefully Dave and Kenny can do the same. They're just starting to monitor though and it isn't particularly an easy deal. There is a lot to learn and discriminating the falcons from other birds in flight takes time. Now is a good time for them to start learning as there aren't a lot of other birds out this early to confuse them with. That will be changing pretty soon though. So, I'll be posting the log entries this years while those guys are learning as the entries all need to be in a relatively consistent form to send to WDFW to be useful to them for their monthly reporting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 so why do you monitor so early in the morning? do yo think the birds know that they are being watched? okay, i was being serious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 I didn't. I got there about 4pm... I'm just up nights working sometimes and post early in the morning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Takes dedication to monitor Peregines. I must have missed it somewhere, but what do we hope to gain by doing so? A possible earlier season opener perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostCamKenny Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Takes dedication to monitor Peregines. I must have missed it somewhere, but what do we hope to gain by doing so? A possible earlier season opener perhaps? i'm not positive that any of us knows what will be gained by our doing this. a clearer picture of blah, blah, blah, blah, technical talk, biological jargon, blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada... pretty sure that dfw doesn't care what we see - its all up to them(us, i suppose, since i am counted among them). joseph's monitoring activities, while noble, are not biologically based or rooted in an actual study or ongoing body of research, and neither are mine. they are private observations given to dfw and dfw will do with them whatever they want - probably put them on the district biologist's desk where they can get lost until late july. the district biologist is a busy guy and i'm pretty sure that he gives little worry to what we care about as climbers - to include what the birds are doing. this doesn't mean that we should stop looking or observing. quite the contrary, actually. we should be as informed as we possibly can when the birds are concerned! the more you know the better able you are to debate the subject. being informed is the best thing one can do for themselves in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Right on Kenny. Thanks to you guys for your efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinp Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) joseph's monitoring activities, while noble, are not biologically based or rooted in an actual study or ongoing body of research, and neither are mine. As pointed out this is a great start (or continuation)... In my little engineering brain it seems with all the educated people interested in this topic we could come up with an added scientific (or/and legal) approach to supplement simply detailing what is observed out there..... BTW anyone have a copy of the current management plan for the falcons? Curious on how sound there science is or is this just what “I” say goes. Has an external proposal to allow climbing year round been formally proposed? By law WA State Park must consider external proposal for use on public land and requires NEPA SEPA analysis if the proposal is deemed valid. Or perhaps I'm missing something. Im new here Edited February 24, 2010 by justinp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 i'm not positive that any of us knows what will be gained by our doing this. Early opens is what's gained from this or I wouldn't be doing it for the sixth year running. We've had early opens in four of the five past years because of it. pretty sure that dfw doesn't care what we see - its all up to them(us, i suppose, since i am counted among them). Dave Anderson does a monthly report on the Peregrine status this time of year and does very much care what we report, though you are correct that all decision making is up to Dave you WDFW guys. joseph's monitoring activities, while noble, are not biologically based or rooted in an actual study or ongoing body of research, and neither are mine. they are private observations given to dfw and dfw will do with them whatever they want - probably put them on the district biologist's desk where they can get lost until late july. Correct, there is no "research" or "study" going on; the monitoring protocol is dictated by the WDFW's Peregrine Management Plan. Dave Anderson is actively engaged in making sure Beacon both gets monitored to those requirements and in establishing / documenting that nesting, hatching, and fledging take place at Beacon as well as where and when. Again, that's the basis for pinning down an opening date. the district biologist is a busy guy and i'm pretty sure that he gives little worry to what we care about as climbers - to include what the birds are doing. Dave is real busy, but again is very much engaged at Beacon even though it's just one of many responsibilities, monitoring sites, and projects he has going on in any month across a number of species. Here's his response from sending this first monitoring report: Thanks very much for this - I was going to get out soon but this covers our needs for the time being. We will see if this winters weather changes chronology and they initiate egg laying earlier this year. I think we are still in for some nasty weather in the next month. Will just have to wait and see. this doesn't mean that we should stop looking or observing. quite the contrary, actually. we should be as informed as we possibly can when the birds are concerned! the more you know the better able you are to debate the subject. being informed is the best thing one can do for themselves in this situation. Entirely correct there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 As pointed out this is a great start (or continuation)... In my little engineering brain it seems with all the educated people interested in this topic we could come up with an added scientific (or/and legal) approach to supplement simply detailing what is observed out there..... BTW anyone have a copy of the current management plan for the falcons? Curious on how sound there science is or is this just what “I” say goes. "What is observed" is the entire basis of opening Beacon's South Face to climbing. Other than a wifi/cell-based camera system above the scrape which is being explored, there is little else to be done. Has an external proposal to allow climbing year round been formally proposed? By law WA State Park must consider external proposal for use on public land and requires NEPA SEPA analysis if the proposal is deemed valid. Or perhaps I'm missing something. Im new here You / we can propose all we like, but the closure is solidly rooted in state and federal law and at this time there is zero legal basis to challenge that so our proposals won't be "deemed valid". Again, the only basis for any form of opening the South Face is working with WFDW on the monitoring. I do have both political and [para-]legal experience in this sort of thing and trust me, in this sixth year of doing this shit, if there was any legal or scientific basis for lifting the closure I would be climbing at Beacon right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinp Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Thanks for the background Joe. As I said I am new to the whole issue.... You / we can propose all we like, but the closure is solidly rooted in state and federal law and at this time there is zero legal basis to challenge that so our proposals won't be "deemed valid". Again, the only basis for any form of opening the South Face is working with WFDW on the monitoring. I do have both political and [para-]legal experience in this sort of thing and trust me, in this sixth year of doing this shit, if there was any legal or scientific basis for lifting the closure I would be climbing at Beacon right now. Aside from your para-legal experience have u consulted with someone specializing in environmental law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 No, the law on the matter is clear enough that no environmental lawyer I know of would risk their reputation and career trying to counter it even if it didn't run counter to their personal ethics. You could check with Bryan (Crimper), he is an environemental lawyer for DEQ, but I suspect you'd get the same answer from him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinp Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Joe specifically what law are you referring to? I have complete faith that what you are saying is true.... Just looking for some clarification and education on the matter. Are you talking endangered species act, sate law, forest practice regulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migratory_Bird_Treaty_Act_of_1918 http://www.fsa.usda.gov/FSA/webapp?area=home&subject=ecrc&topic=waf-ma http://www.fsa.usda.gov/Internet/FSA_File/eo13186.pdf http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_01/50cfr21_01.html http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=232-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinp Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Okay Joe or anyone else that gives a fawk specifically Joe specifically what law are you referring to? I have complete faith that what you are saying is true.... Just looking for some clarification and education on the matter. Are you talking endangered species act, sate law, forest practice regulation. Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 makes it unlawful to pursue, hunt, take, capture, kill or sell birds. This has nothing to do with protecting nests...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinp Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 My guess is it's in the out of date 2002 Washington Peregrine Falcon Status Report. However, I have not found it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 25, 2010 Author Share Posted February 25, 2010 Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 makes it unlawful to pursue, hunt, take, capture, kill or sell birds. This has nothing to do with protecting nests...... In reality it does, by virtue of the fact that WA state authority for that protection flows straight out of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918: § 708. State or Territorial laws or regulations Nothing in this subchapter shall be construed to prevent the several States and Territories from making or enforcing laws or regulations not inconsistent with the provisions of said conventions or of this subchapter, or from making or enforcing laws or regulations which shall give further protection to migratory birds, their nests, and eggs, if such laws or regulations do not extend the open seasons for such birds beyond the dates approved by the President in accordance with section 704 of this title. Which leads to WA State Raptor Management: "...the [Peregrine] population remains small, and management of [nest] sites is needed..." And finally that can happen by way of the authority the WA legislature vested in WFDW via: 11) RECOVERY AND MANAGEMENT OF LISTED SPECIES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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