Yes, Obama did turn out to be a TRUST buster!

[tvashtarkatena]

The No Fly List issue and others like it are often framed in terms of 'anything goes' versus 'the totalitarian state', but its a bit more complicated than that.

 

When thinking about No Fly Lists, it might be helpful to ask a few questions about the policy and the system and implements it:

 

By what statutory authority is this system being administered? The State often pursues actions without any democratic (statutory) authority, in addition to actions that are outright illegal.

 

What is the purpose of the system? The DOJ and others often cite 'terrorism', but more often than not, these new powers are used primarily for the War on Drugs and other purposes having nothing at all to do with national security. That's fine...if the public gets a chance to weigh in on that debate. It often doesn't get that chance.

 

Is the system effective, or is it, in fact, a waste of finite resources that could be better used for public safety in another way? Many 'we've got to do this' arguments assume infinite resources with no opportunity costs. Is effectiveness of the system even tracked, nevermind reported, and if so, how, and to whom, and how often? Who gets access to this reporting? The public?

 

How does one get on, and off, a No Fly List? Is there an appeals system? Who decides? By what authority? Is it applied fairly or arbitrarily? What is the potential for abuse (against lawful political dissenters, as has so often been the case) or excessive use of the system (giving Grandma a cavity search)?

 

How accurate is the system? How many people get burned because of mistakes? So far, the government has failed miserably in this area regarding No Fly Lists.

 

How is private information safeguarded? Is it given or sold to private corporations. Often, private contractors handle large parts of such systems, and there are few or no policies pertaining to what they can and cannot do with the information they collect and store. They often sell it to other corporations.

 

Finally, might the existence of a No Fly List lead to a No Bridge Crossing, No Train Riding, No Ferry Boarding, No Employment, No School, and other lists that would effectively destroy someone's liberty entirely? Does such a system jibe with our fundamental values of freedom: freedom of movement, freedom of association, dissent, to pursue happiness and a livelihood?

[Fairweather]

 

$11.62 in Tacoma. That makes your $400k home come it at $4,648 down here. Now we have school districts running off-cycle bond elections and, of course, threats to shut down parks. Like I said in my post--if you bothered to read the disclaimer--I don't mind the taxes so much as the ungrateful and entitlement attitude put forth by the likes of Prole, j_b, and you. How much will be enough?

 

I'd still say the overall package is reasonable. That said - there has been an increased tax burden over the past 25 years on the individual vs. the corporate entity. Combine this with the restrictions placed on state and local governments regarding Tim Eyman's wako-ness and there is little wiggle room. The idea that there is some bloated bureaucracy living off the public dole is baseless. Spend any time with federal, state, or local employees these days and you will quickly understand what they are up against. They are stuck in a difficult place - and floating bond measures, as unpalatable as it is during a recession, seems to be the only choice. Unless of course you don't mind 50 kids per classroom, parks closed, and services curtailed. It's a big hole and one that has been dug over a couple decades. Foreign adventures, unprescedented flow of capital to the upper class, and reducing of corporate taxes - that's were our money has gone.

 

Bullshit. Washington State government's biennial budget has expanded from $24Bn to $33Bn in the last 5 years alone. What do Democrats in Olympia have to do "foreign adventures"? One party government (and its union benefactors) is the problem here. Nice try.

[Fairweather]

You don't want to give any money to me; it'll go right into some crack ho's faux Louis Vuitton.

 

Go to ACLU of Washington . There's a 'donate' link and 'legislative action network' link on the home page. Our legislative action network is arguably the best in the state.

 

We are one of 4 state chapters nationwide to have staffed, funded Technology and Liberty Projects. National has one too.

 

The surveillance camera issue is already huge, and growing. Britain has half a million such cameras already, and we're following suite. It is, however, only one aspect of the total surveillance society we're creating. It's not just the State, either. Sprint is making money selling customer information to law enforcement. ATT has huge contracts with the NSA to filter all of our fibre communications, which is pretty much all of our communications. We're the heavy hitter against all this shit, although we work with other organizations as well.

 

If you care about taxes, and I share that concern, then you must care about where tax money goes. Let's talk criminal justice system and War on Drugs. Yeah, that's one expensive publicly funded toy. We're also working on reclassifying pot as a misdemeanor as a first step towards building down this incredibly bloated system to more reasonable levels and restoring and reducing the human cost of such policies.

 

That, and a bunch of other stuff you probably would find interesting, even if you don't agree with all of it.

 

 

A helpful and civil response. Thanks. My modest $$ are on the way.

[tvashtarkatena]

Shit, I'm gonna have to give you a day's hall pass from abuse. Even longer, maybe.

 

I like a man who puts his money where his mouth is. Yours will be well spent. Thank you on behalf of the Borg.

[JayB]

 

$11.62 in Tacoma. That makes your $400k home come it at $4,648 down here. Now we have school districts running off-cycle bond elections and, of course, threats to shut down parks. Like I said in my post--if you bothered to read the disclaimer--I don't mind the taxes so much as the ungrateful and entitlement attitude put forth by the likes of Prole, j_b, and you. How much will be enough?

 

I'd still say the overall package is reasonable. That said - there has been an increased tax burden over the past 25 years on the individual vs. the corporate entity. Combine this with the restrictions placed on state and local governments regarding Tim Eyman's wako-ness and there is little wiggle room. The idea that there is some bloated bureaucracy living off the public dole is baseless. Spend any time with federal, state, or local employees these days and you will quickly understand what they are up against. They are stuck in a difficult place - and floating bond measures, as unpalatable as it is during a recession, seems to be the only choice. Unless of course you don't mind 50 kids per classroom, parks closed, and services curtailed. It's a big hole and one that has been dug over a couple decades. Foreign adventures, unprescedented flow of capital to the upper class, and reducing of corporate taxes - that's were our money has gone.

 

Have you looked at the trends for public sector vs private sector job-growth for the past 40 years (e.g the ratio of goverment employees to private sector employees)? Do you really think that the stats will bear out the claim that we spend fewer inflation-adjusted dollars per capita on government services than we used to, or that the ratio of government employees to private sector employees has decreased over the long run?

 

Once again, the first thing that happens in a budget crisis is talk of socking it to the most vulnerable parts of society, and no mention of making any structural adjustments to compensation schemes for public sector employees.

 

 

 

[JayB]

There is a little thing called inflation to consider as well

probably why the first graph is put in terms of 2007 dollars?

 

Just an addendum to note that the term "real" (lower plot) = inflation adjusted whether the subject is dollars, interest rates, etc.

[JayB]

Huh, interesting. Except that now everybody in the household except the family dog has a fucking job. And are working more hours. Or were...

 

Not only is everyone expected to work but fixed expenses like transportation, child care, health care, local nickel and dime regressive taxes, etc .. have increased much faster than family income (even more so when considering that inflation is systematically understated thanks to creative cooking of books). These findings aren't equivocal despite refusal by clowns to even acknowledge they exist.

 

[video:youtube]akVL7QY0S8A

 

 

Just watch JayB not even address Warren's work and later on keep pretending there are no data pointing to the demise of the middle class.

 

The burden of proof is on you, amigo.

 

Define middle class and post-up some unambiguous proof that folks in that arbitrary statistical category are disappearing because their total income - wages, benefits, tax-credits, transfers-in-kind, etc are actually decreasing in real terms.

 

 

[Fairweather]

I smell a j_b Huffingtonpost just around the corner!

[billcoe]

I smell a j_b Huffingtonpost just around the corner!

 

What we need now is a link to a story that discusses someone else's opinion about someone else's opinion!

[Stonehead]

Is it Granhog day yet?

[j_b]

The burden of proof is on you, amigo.

 

Define middle class and post-up some unambiguous proof that folks in that arbitrary statistical category are disappearing because their total income - wages, benefits, tax-credits, transfers-in-kind, etc are actually decreasing in real terms.

 

I just gave you a 57 minute lecture to listen to that did exactly that. Pull your head out of your ass, that'll help.

[Peter_Puget]

The burden of proof is on you, amigo.

 

Define middle class and post-up some unambiguous proof that folks in that arbitrary statistical category are disappearing because their total income - wages, benefits, tax-credits, transfers-in-kind, etc are actually decreasing in real terms.

 

I just gave you a 57 minute lecture to listen to that did exactly that. Pull your head out of your ass, that'll help.

 

J_B - I'd hate to see you in a mean mood.!

[Kimmo]

You don't want to give any money to me; it'll go right into some crack ho's faux Louis Vuitton.

 

Go to ACLU of Washington . There's a 'donate' link and 'legislative action network' link on the home page. Our legislative action network is arguably the best in the state.

 

We are one of 4 state chapters nationwide to have staffed, funded Technology and Liberty Projects. National has one too.

 

The surveillance camera issue is already huge, and growing. Britain has half a million such cameras already, and we're following suite. It is, however, only one aspect of the total surveillance society we're creating. It's not just the State, either. Sprint is making money selling customer information to law enforcement. ATT has huge contracts with the NSA to filter all of our fibre communications, which is pretty much all of our communications. We're the heavy hitter against all this shit, although we work with other organizations as well.

 

If you care about taxes, and I share that concern, then you must care about where tax money goes. Let's talk criminal justice system and War on Drugs. Yeah, that's one expensive publicly funded toy. We're also working on reclassifying pot as a misdemeanor as a first step towards building down this incredibly bloated system to more reasonable levels and restoring and reducing the human cost of such policies.

 

That, and a bunch of other stuff you probably would find interesting, even if you don't agree with all of it.

 

 

A helpful and civil response. Thanks. My modest $$ are on the way.

 

[j_b]

The burden of proof is on you, amigo.

 

Define middle class and post-up some unambiguous proof that folks in that arbitrary statistical category are disappearing because their total income - wages, benefits, tax-credits, transfers-in-kind, etc are actually decreasing in real terms.

 

I just gave you a 57 minute lecture to listen to that did exactly that. Pull your head out of your ass, that'll help.

 

 

classic "if I don't acknowledge the data, it goes away, and I can claim that we already discussed it" moment

[Fairweather]

 

 

 

"Terrain warning. Pull up. Pull up. Pull up."