superB Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 IMO, C3's don't hold their placements nearly as well as Master Cams and Aliens are no longer to be trusted. The #7 friend is lighter and less wobbly than the #6 BD camalot. Wild Country Zeros are too chincy except for the #1-3 but those are too small for anything but hard aid. Metolius Mastercams effectively replaced the TCU. The new DMM cams may be a good Camalot replacement, but hard to say yet. why are they no longer trusted? whatd i miss Quote
layton Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 they've been breaking and CCH has done nothing about it, if they are not out of business yet, they will be soon. Quote
billcoe Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Layton has it.... Some variations: For me, regular nuts I like the DMM Wallnuts instead of the BD as they are lighter. I use to have the BD, the DMM hav ea slight edge is all, both are very good. Small DMM Bronze offsets rule for the small sizes. But same same otherwise. Can't go wrong passing on the Aliens, I still use mine esp in the Green/Yellow/Red as they are sooooo perfect, but I have a set of Metolius Mastercams I prefer for hard free climbing. Laytons #7 Wild Country flexible friend he mentions, he might have meant a Metolius #7. I've found the Metolius #5,6 and 7 to be great additions at times and they are very light and sick strong. For real long, easy routes, not so easy you can free solo it, but you won't be dogging (area dependent) the 4 larger hexes can often work great and are much lighter than a cam. Some areas take hexes so sweet. Trezlar and White Satin at Smith are some climbs that come to mind where there are better placements and work better than cams. Not gimme pitches at 5.9 and 5.10a, but you can grab and toss a hex as fast as a cam and it's a better placement in many spots as the constrictions are perfect for them. I'd pass on the Camp passive Tri-cams unless you are going to the gunks or Joshua Tree where they go from near totally sucking to near totally ruling pretty fast. For biners, few compare to the Wild Country Heliums as they hit the strength to weight sweet spot. Price though...*cough*cough....I have 45 of them and wish I'd bought more when they were on sale. For long alpine routes, the Oz are lighter. (not as strong) Quote
Off_White Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 I'd pass on the Camp passive Tri-cams unless you are going to the gunks or Joshua Tree where they go from near totally sucking to near totally ruling pretty fast. Heathen! Pinky rules! What other piece has its own fan site? Pinky Quote
superB Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 this is going to get expensive fast. my salary (if you can call it that) for the next half decade will be very minimal as i am willingly entering graduate school. please give a heads up on any killer deals. multiple items preferred so i dont get killed on shipping. adios! Quote
LostCamKenny Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 BD camalots - purple through blue; metolius tcu's - purple through red; set of nuts (mine are a random assortment from several manufactuerers); set of hexes (again, mine are a random assortment, though I have a full set of Wild Country Rockcentrics). As far as the hexes are concerned, I don't carry all the larger sizes on all routes but I do add them when I know I might need them. When choosing hexes I think it is important to understand the idea behind placing one. BD hexes are ok and work just fine, but metolius curve hexes (even if they are on wires)and wild country rockcentrics (served on slings) have curved sides to provide more camming action when they come under load, and therefore place a bit easier and set stronger. With the copius camming device choices out there I think the passive gear gets overlooked, especially the hexes. Many people think that cams are best because they can be placed quickly and they are very strong. Both of those points a valid, but what they also need to unserstand is that the cams have moving parts and thus they will walk if they are not slung with long slings - they may walk (and get stuck) even if they are slung with a long sling. I am speaking from experience, here - there is a reason I post as LCK. And as a general rule, four-lobed cams are stronger but walk more, and three-lobed cams (tcu's) walk less and are not as strong. Having a good set of nuts and a good set of hexes is the best start and then add the cams as you need them. And be careful who you ask about the perfect rack - if you ask an old timer or someone who has been climbing a long time (as I did) you'll get an answer like: "Aw, all we had was hexes and nuts and we did it - we never had any of these cams" Of course if money is no object the sky's the limit - get it all! its all cool shit anyway! Quote
LostCamKenny Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 I'd pass on the Camp passive Tri-cams unless you are going to the gunks or Joshua Tree where they go from near totally sucking to near totally ruling pretty fast. Heathen! Pinky rules! What other piece has its own fan site? Pinky Yes, yes... pinky is the only tricam that makes it onto my rack regularly. Quote
billcoe Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 this is going to get expensive fast. my salary (if you can call it that) for the next half decade will be very minimal as i am willingly entering graduate school. please give a heads up on any killer deals. multiple items preferred so i dont get killed on shipping. adios! I just bought a new Gri Gri for $45. I bet if you check ebay, you could easily find some great deals on some good condition gear. Nuts and Metolius cams in particular, seem to have a long shelf life and good prices. http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/899611#Post899611 Quote
AR_Guy Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 I've found a few mid size hexes (BD 6, 7 and 8) are a nice complement to cams and extend the range of passive up from the larger stoppers. Quite a bit lighter than a 2nd cam in the same size range. I place the #8 (~2") quite a lot. They're also cheap (~1/4 the price of a similar sized cam) so if you have to bail - at least it'll be less expensive than leaving cams behind. Quote
LostCamKenny Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 They're also cheap (~1/4 the price of a similar sized cam) so if you have to bail - at least it'll be less expensive than leaving cams behind. Yet another brilliant reason to carry hexes, and using them to extend the range of passive nuts - that's just good use of your gear! BD hexes are good for bailing - that's the only reason I'd carry their hexes, but since I am not bailing all that often I won't be buying any soon. I use the three smallest rockcentrics quite a bit and when they bite they are better than ANY cam - BD, Metolius, experimental DMM, or whatever! Quote
Off_White Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Here's your #8 Chouinard hex in action. (I thought we were ready for another picture) Quote
billcoe Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) OMG! I've been waiting for Kevbone to show up with his Pamela Anderson copius cleavage pic as after all the title thread is "The perfect rack!", but your pic is so much better OFF!!!! My fat folds at work on Knob Job in the valley. Steve Schneider showed up and did it next, pretty much rest for rest, piece for piece same. Rock porn!!! shit, thought I had some hexes on me but they might have been on the other side..... Edited August 11, 2009 by billcoe Quote
billcoe Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Here's the hexes (#7, 8 and 9?) jangling below. FA of the Plum. I'll be climbing with these shoes this afternoon. Best $60 Euros I spent in 1997 I think. 4th-5th resole now? Quote
billcoe Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 I want to climb that route right now. damn that's sweet looking Off. Quote
Off_White Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 2nd pitch of Central Pillar of Frenzy, it's a wee bit hot for me in the Valley right now, though the afternoon shade on that wall is a beautiful thing. Quote
LostCamKenny Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 I'll start them off slowly - first I'll have them understand basic physics and the calculus behind the mathematics. Then once they've mastered that I'll teach them the medium they are working with and how to investigate the place where they want to place the piece that they want to use and the importance of making sure that the rock surrounding the piece is solid. Then they will begin by learning nuts - how to seat them, how to oppose them. (They won't climb anything yet: they are just learning the gear.) After a while of playing with the nuts, they will move on to hexes and learn the proper passive and active ways of using them. Being mathematically inclined will help them understand the great benefits of a camming hex and how strong they actually are. They still aren't climbing with this gear yet, but I'd let them hang on it at ground level to illustrate that it will hold when placed correctly. After they have a good solid base of understanding for the passive stuff then they will learn the similarities and differences of the active cams. I'll save pitons for later, since they are not used nearly as much as they used to be, but it is important that they know about them. When they are teenagers hopefully they will be able to lead me up some hard stuff. They will learn a rack the way I believe it should be learned - passive gear first, then the spring-loaded cams. Then they will go and clip bolts and establish 5.20! Quote
Off_White Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 LCK, don't be answering Rudy's trolling efforts, it only encourages him. Quote
LostCamKenny Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 he said playing with his nutz... You are sooooo clever Quote
LostCamKenny Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 LCK, don't be answering Rudy's trolling efforts, it only encourages him. We all need encouragement - even if it is only on the computer. Quote
denalidave Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 I'd pass on the Camp passive Tri-cams unless you are going to the gunks or Joshua Tree where they go from near totally sucking to near totally ruling pretty fast. Heathen! Pinky rules! What other piece has its own fan site? Pinky Yes, yes... pinky is the only tricam that makes it onto my rack regularly. I finally just added pinky onto the biner with my nuts. Go pinky, you da piece! Quote
denalidave Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Both of those points a valid, but what they also need to unserstand is that the cams have moving parts and thus they will walk if they are not slung with long slings - they may walk (and get stuck) even if they are slung with a long sling. I am speaking from experience, here - there is a reason I post as LCK. Yes, why THANK ME very much for giving you such and admirable and prestigious name. Course, I'm thinking of starting to call you Found Cam Kenny with you recent booty. I almost had your brand new baby out that day I met you last summer, but alas, it is forever part of the route now... The rock was hungry for cams that week. Quote
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