To God or not to God

[pc313]

I was raised a presbyterian, and come from a long line of missionaries. They went to china in 1860 to save the heathens from the fires of hell. In high school I was going through church confirmation when I happened to fall in love with my classmate Devi Unsoeld, whose father was Willi Unsoeld, the world famous mountaineer. Over a series of dates at the Unsoeld house, where I saw Willi's toes in a jar (lost them on Everest in '63), Willi convinced me that Buddhism made as much sense as Christianity. He was philosophy professor at Evergreen college and very friendly and persuasive. And Devi was so beautiful.

 

When I confronted my family with the conflict in logic, they said I had to trust in God. Being of an inquiring mind, that wasn't good enuf. I believe in things I can see.

 

Now I believe in worms. You die, the worms get you. Sorry if that sounds harsh. The world is still a cool place, but I don't think it's any bigger than what you see right now.

I have a few videos,books and mags on Willi.

 

"Throw in no line,catch no fish"

 

Thanks for sharing!

[Bug]

I guess what differentiates me from the Bugs of the world, aside from a thorax and antennae, is that I'm prefectly satisfied with how mysterious, beautiful, and interesting the world is as it is, rather than adding layer after layer of spirits, superpowers, unseen, enexplainable forces, and the like. All that crap just gets in the way of my more directly connecting with the off the rack universe we find ourselves in. I'm comfortable with unexplained phenomenon, but I don't see the need for unexplainable phenomenon (um...how could we possibly know that something is unexplainable, anyway?). "It's BEYOND OUR UNDERSTANDING!" You mean, forever, no matter how future generations find ways to study it? How can that be? After all, didn't WE make all this unexplainable shit up in the first place?

 

I think the addition of all this mysticism connotes a dissatisfaction with our world as it is. Well, I'm amazed by our world, not dissatisfied with it, so I see no need to seek amazement by trying to transform human created myth into reality.

 

The frequent counter, from Bug, anyway, is "Oh, you just worship science. How droll. How boring. Plus, it's just a religion, too"; as if The Non-religious (read that to mean 'Unenlightened Ones' walk through nature's splendor and see only equations, kind of like reading Matrix code. Such comments are so patently ridiculous that they require no counterargument.

Actually, the difference between you and me is that you lack curiosity about the things that science does not explain. You lash out at concepts that are not based on science as though they are patently false in the same ignorant way that religious fundamentalists lash out at science.

Why is there no room for exploration? Einstein said that he would never have come up with the theory of realativity without having studied Taoism.

Bored with this world as it is? You sell yourself short with stupid comments like that. You do not know me at all and yet you are arrogant enough to say that you know how I feel? What I am thinking?

You are getting very boring.

Go back to your little world where everything is defined and categorized and be amazed.

Be comfortable that something is unexplained. Go ahead and leave it that way. Weld something.

I see no point in trying to discuss this with you further as you are too emotional and unable to reason logically.

Even I, beleiving in things we cannot see, do not beleive I can read minds.

[ivan]

if there is a god, can we indict the mother-fucker?

[tvashtarkatena]

Actually, the difference between you and me is that you lack curiosity about the things that science does not explain. You lash out at concepts that are not based on science as though they are patently false in the same ignorant way that religious fundamentalists lash out at science.

Why is there no room for exploration? Einstein said that he would never have come up with the theory of realativity without having studied Taoism.

Bored with this world as it is? You sell yourself short with stupid comments like that. You do not know me at all and yet you are arrogant enough to say that you know how I feel? What I am thinking?

You are getting very boring.

Go back to your little world where everything is defined and categorized and be amazed.

Be comfortable that something is unexplained. Go ahead and leave it that way. Weld something.

I see no point in trying to discuss this with you further as you are too emotional and unable to reason logically.

Even I, beleiving in things we cannot see, do not beleive I can read minds.

 

Actually, the difference between you and me is that I respond to you what you actually write, and you pretend to actually know me. To be comfortable with the fact that some things remain unexplained is not to be incurious about them, BTW. Anyone who knows me would have a good laugh at that characterization. I will admit that I'm not very curious about crowd pleasing magic tricks, like 'lifting fog'. In other words, I'm not that gullible. Even most Northern Californians wouldn't fall for that crap.

 

And I said you are dissatisfied with the universe the way it is, not bored with it. If you were not, you would not be looking to charlatans like Master Chuan and his Linebackers for answers.

 

Well, surprise, surprise, I've already gone through the requisite early-20s study of buhddism, taoism, the philosophers, and incorporated what resonated into my life. You see, a lack of belief in Master Chuan does not constitute a lack of appreciation for these Eastern philosophies which, sadly, you seem to think are something novel to the rest of us here. I do have a little credibility test I employ before I waste my time reading some clown's drivel. You should try it sometime. Christianity, in any form, fails the test across the board.

 

I can get "Love thy neighbor", the only useful takeaway I've been able to glean from Christianity, from a number of other sources with much more robust teachings.

Edited December 10, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[ivan]

if god exists, i defy him to make tvash, bug, matt, FW and every other kook on this here intrewub come together for a great big group hug

[tvashtarkatena]

If we could only harness that repulsive force to power our cars and heat our homes....

[kevbone]

Yes.....we need a group hug.

[pc313]

if god exists, i defy him to make tvash, bug, matt, FW and every other kook on this here intrewub come together for a great big group hug

Will there be BEER?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

You do not know me at all and yet you are arrogant enough to say that you know how I feel? What I am thinking?

...

I see no point in trying to discuss this with you further as you are too emotional and unable to reason logically.

Even I, beleiving in things we cannot see, do not beleive I can read minds.

 

IRONY ALERT

[tvashtarkatena]

Smokem peas pipe.

[pc313]

Wake up bug....you are missing the cool part!

[Bug]

Actually, the difference between you and me is that you lack curiosity about the things that science does not explain. You lash out at concepts that are not based on science as though they are patently false in the same ignorant way that religious fundamentalists lash out at science.

Why is there no room for exploration? Einstein said that he would never have come up with the theory of realativity without having studied Taoism.

Bored with this world as it is? You sell yourself short with stupid comments like that. You do not know me at all and yet you are arrogant enough to say that you know how I feel? What I am thinking?

You are getting very boring.

Go back to your little world where everything is defined and categorized and be amazed.

Be comfortable that something is unexplained. Go ahead and leave it that way. Weld something.

I see no point in trying to discuss this with you further as you are too emotional and unable to reason logically.

Even I, beleiving in things we cannot see, do not beleive I can read minds.

 

Actually, the difference between you and me is that I respond to you what you actually write, and you pretend to actually know me. To be comfortable with the fact that some things remain unexplained is not to be incurious about them, BTW. Anyone who knows me would have a good laugh at that characterization. I will admit that I'm not very curious about crowd pleasing magic tricks, like 'lifting fog'. In other words, I'm not that gullible. Even most Northern Californians wouldn't fall for that crap.

 

And I said you are dissatisfied with the universe the way it is, not bored with it. If you were not, you would not be looking to charlatans like Master Chuan and his Linebackers for answers.

 

Well, surprise, surprise, I've already gone through the requisite early-20s study of buhddism, taoism, the philosophers, and incorporated what resonated into my life. You see, a lack of belief in Master Chuan does not constitute a lack of appreciation for these Eastern philosophies which, sadly, you seem to think are something novel to the rest of us here. I do have a little credibility test I employ before I waste my time reading some clown's drivel. You should try it sometime. Christianity, in any form, fails the test across the board.

 

I can get "Love thy neighbor", the only useful takeaway I've been able to glean from Christianity, from a number of other sources with much more robust teachings.

You are too quick to categorize that which you do not readily beleive. That is the fundamentalism I am talking about seeing in what you post.

So you have studied Buhddism. Yet you do not respect an emmissary of the Tibetan council of Masters. Have you actually met him? Have you looked at what he can do and studied what he has to teach?

It does not seem likely. You "would not fall for that crap."

That is a lack of curiousity in my book.

Your reasons are your own and you are welcome to them as I am welcome to mine.

As I post here I try to meet people at their level of civility.

You do not "seem" to like being treated with the same disrespect with which you treat me.

The "requisite early-20s study of buhddism, taoism, the philosophers" does not scratch the surface of these subjects.

It would be like expecting to converse at Hawkings level after the same cursory sniff.

But you will not beleive that it is possible for these subjects to be in the same ballpark will you?

You read a few sentences on the internet and are ready to discount a tradition that has taken thousands of years to develope.

Just as you discounted the Vedic traditions, which have been around even longer, because of a few hacks in Northern California.

I would say you are lucky they didn't pick science to hack.

We would be doing Yoga together.

 

Peace out on your photography and climbing brother.

You ARE good at that.

 

[Bug]

You do not know me at all and yet you are arrogant enough to say that you know how I feel? What I am thinking?

...

I see no point in trying to discuss this with you further as you are too emotional and unable to reason logically.

Even I, beleiving in things we cannot see, do not beleive I can read minds.

 

IRONY ALERT

 

KKKK, are you trying to say that your anger is subtle and a person needs to know you well to detect it?

REREAD 100 of your posts at random.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

You do not know me at all and yet you are arrogant enough to say that you know how I feel? What I am thinking?

...

I see no point in trying to discuss this with you further as you are too emotional and unable to reason logically.

Even I, beleiving in things we cannot see, do not beleive I can read minds.

 

IRONY ALERT

 

KKKK, are you trying to say that your anger is subtle and a person needs to know you well to detect it?

REREAD 100 of your posts at random.

 

LOL. you are a tool.

[kevbone]

Group hug?

[Bug]

Group hug?

 

Yeah KKKK. When are you going to call up Tvash and invite him out for a climb?

 

Post a pic of you two with an arm around each other's shoulders and an ice ax raised by the other hand on a significant peak, Stuart, even Sherpa, or some such peak that clearly demonstrates time spent working together and I will get a pic of me in a tutu on the same spot.

[Skeezix]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Sometimes spray can indeed serve as a soporific.

 

[kevbone]

I will get a pic of me in a tutu on the same spot.

 

 

Come on guys.....get it together.....this would be fun to see.....

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I will get a pic of me in a tutu on the same spot.

 

 

Come on guys.....get it together.....this would be fun to see.....

 

you want to see Bug in a tutu? sickie

[Skeezix]

Sorry, Bugged. The vote currently stands at "No God" by a difference of one.

[pc313]

And they say 1 Vote won't matter!

[RedNose]

Ya all are a bunch of wankers. When the chips are down and I mean BIG ASS CHIPS everyone, even the tough SOBs on the fucking boat all are praying to something. You fucking butt fucks in Seattle disgust me. that's why I keep coming back to this site every now and then just to read your shit and realize no matter how filthy or beastly my co-workers can become they at least are better than you. Why? Because they are REAL!

 

[prole]

Ya all are a bunch of wankers. When the chips are down and I mean BIG ASS CHIPS everyone, even the tough SOBs on the fucking boat all are praying to something. You fucking butt fucks in Seattle disgust me. that's why I keep coming back to this site every now and then just to read your shit and realize no matter how filthy or beastly my co-workers can become they at least are better than you. Why? Because they are REAL!

 

Naw dude, they're REALITY!

 

[hafilax]

I love the part in Touching the Void where he proudly states that he never once thought of God when trying to get out of there alive. I think God would be proud.