squamish gang bangers - excessive top roping

[kevbone]

And he is off.....

[pink]

What are you bitching about. They got on it first.....end of story.

 

so just because you banged a chick first doesn't mean you get bang her all night

[billcoe]

 

We should read up on this interesting issue.

 

 

 

No, it's just sad, lets admit it. I've re-read your post. This is what I'm hearing. Yup.

 

 

Hmm, I spent Saturday on the cliff alone. NO Climbers, NO people of any type. Course I didn't invite anyone. And in fact did not invite 3 people who were asking what I was doing so maybe we could get out. But no one really goes there anyway. Which might have been a good thing when I started letting loose with the .45's. Or nearly pissing my pants earlier when I cut loose for the freestyling King Swing overhang fall screaming like a school girl on Magic Mountain as I swung out into space like it was a F*ng Disney ride. 30-40' out and around, the rope above already core shotted, wondering if the f*uker would hold as I swung and swung....plenty of time to think...and scream...wheeeeeeeee.....totally and utterly alone. Had it gone wrong, I'd still be swinging in the wind, alone.

 

Sorry dude, can't relate. I thought they had a few other routes up there. Could be wrong, it's been a while. I once started to stand in a 2 day line for the Nose but was shocked to learn that the valley had a couple of other routes. So we went to do those. We spent a few days alone IN THE VALLEY.

 

Shocking.

 

 

Totally. Can't relate.

 

Just in time: Probably just need to take a breath and relax....it's all good.

[mythosgrl]

That's why I don't go to the Smoke Bluffs on weekends. I know that it'll make me angry.

[el jefe]

the obvious solution is to do like golfers do and sign up for a "tee time" on busy weekends.

[marc_leclerc]

If you want to avoid crowds come climbing in the Fraser Valley.

[Maine-iac]

What are you bitching about. They got on it first.....end of story.

 

One time I went to the State Fair and there was a line for the Ferris Wheel, Imagine that. Fact of the matter is on a busy weekend like labor, day everybody and their dog gets out. Even on normal weekends from what I have seen at Smith all of the classics are taken. I think I went there 6 or 7 times before I ever lead, let alone climbed, one of the "Bucket" routes, which I and a few others consider classics. You just need to spend time up in the gullies or on the backside. But on the plus side, Labor Day is one of the last holidays before the rain/snow comes.... So fresh alpine will be back in!

 

[Raindawg]

Support top-roping as an alternative to sport-bolting.

You makin' the same moves, right?, and only doing a fraction of the damage with a couple of anchors at the top.

[Cairns]

Hint: Quality, uncrowded climb of similar grade = Supernatural P1 ... oh yeah but you have to walk more than 5min to get there.

 

Uphill.

 

Maybe 15-20 minutes.

 

Waaaay too far to go for any one pitch.

 

Please provide a 1-to-1 mapping of Smoke Bluffs to Squaw.

 

 

[AlpineK]

Smoke Bluffs on American Labor Day Weekend. Sounds like a bad idea from the start.

 

It's like going skiing at Crystal or Snoqualmie on the weekend after a lot of new snow.

[fern]

 

Please provide a 1-to-1 mapping of Smoke Bluffs to Squaw.

 

 

1:0 mapping of crowds:no crowds . quality of single pitch exists in overlapping space.

 

park 1km north on Loggers Lane to equalize approach time.

[denalidave]

Support top-roping as an alternative to sport-bolting.

You makin' the same moves, right?, and only doing a fraction of the damage with a couple of anchors at the top.

Luv yer sweater dog, super, just super. I bet you look hawte top roping in that.

[el jefe]

It’s amazing to me that this “discussion” (“rant” would be a better word) is still going on. This thread was started by a venomous old fart as a way of spewing invective on younger climbers (“gym mentality”, “cell phone generation”) disguised as a “discussion” regarding acceptable behavior at the crag. He even confesses in a later post that he didn’t try negotiating (“I am guilty of sometimes getting irritated, instead of being friendly and making hints about how excited I am to lead it. I know better too, because I've used that tactic”), but quickly backpedals away from taking any responsibility for his own feelings and behavior by pointing out that the other group was remiss because they didn’t read his mind (“leaders used to get more respect” – did you tell them you wanted to lead the route?). Jesus, what a load this is. I say it’s high time grampa Mark here grew up and learned that you get respect from others by showing it first -- which means that if you want something from other people, then you need to open your mouth and ask for it. Don’t walk away sulking and then complain on the internet about the poor manners of those who aren’t able to anticipate all of your needs, because the simple truth is that most people aren’t walking around the crag thinking about what Markwebster might want. You can only call this behavior “excessive top roping” if the group in question had refused to share the route with you. A better name for this thread would have been "Sulky old schooler having a snit".

[NateF]

Mark's approach may be open to criticism, but I can't believe everyone is supportive of people camping out on a route, expecting others to politely remind them that someone else may want to climb it. I would prefer if the etiquette were the reverse - if a group is hoping to tie up a route for hours, they could ask those around if that's going to work for them. The mounties at least have the courtesy to warn people when they plan to tie up a crag, and they get the bejeesus bashed out of them for doing it.

 

Here, the majority seems to be promoting the sort of thing most people really hate about cragging, probably only because Mark made some stigmatizing comments about the "cell phone generation" and "respecting the leader" etc.

 

Simply conceding the best crags with the best access to whatever circus may arrive seems to be a poor solution to a population boom which shows no signs of reversing.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I can't believe everyone is supportive of people camping out on a route, expecting others to politely remind them that someone else may want to climb it. I would prefer if the etiquette were the reverse - if a group is hoping to tie up a route for hours, they could ask those around if that's going to work for them.

 

+1

 

The pathetic thing is that if the group "hogging" the route were Mounties, BoeAlps, or WAC, the peanut gallery would be blasting the route hogs rather than the author of this thread. CC.com consistency in action.

 

[markwebster]

I think Pink is right. Soloists first, leaders second, top ropers last. I give way for soloists, because they are better climbers, and I respect their skill...and I don't want to get squashed if they blow it.

 

I did ask nicely how many people were following, each time, on each crowded route. And I did mention that I wanted to lead it, as opposed to walking around and setting up a top rope. Each time, after I asked how many people were following, I was told that two to four were waiting to run laps it. Sometimes they weren't even there, but the ropegun would say "they'll be here shortly, and we're holding the line for them." or, "we're done, but we're switching routes with our friends over there, and there are 3 of them".

 

Once, but only once, when Sue and I waited patiently for our turn, some of the top ropers decided to go elsewhere, and we got on the route sooner. This may have happened more frequently had I had more patience to stand around, but there's lots to climb there, and we usually just moved on.

 

It's true that, from the top ropers perspective, if that's the only way they can climb, why should leading take preference over following?

 

I stand corrected in that regard.

 

Obviously I knew it would be crowded, but Sue wanted to go there. Remind me not to do short approaches on busy weekends. One of the bad things about being old is you can remember when it wasn't so crowded everywhere. I also remember when there were very few top rope anchors at Squamish. You led it, belayed from a manky tree and walked off.

 

I'm going to take my snit to Yosemite for a couple weeks.

 

Sulky old schooler signing off.

 

[kevino]

Did you guys just read what you want to read? Most people, including myself, said communication would have solved this problem.

 

Some people, however, are "blasting" the author for saying that leading is the only way to rock climb and that people who lead climb are better than those who do not. All of which are stupid assumptions to make since he did not talk to anyone.

 

wtf...the CC.com consistency is being continued by you 5K by not reading/comprehending the thread and making stupid statements at the end. I mean sure kevbone and one or two others said "whoever gets their first" but honestly - everyone?

Edited September 3, 2008 by kevino

[RuMR]

gotta disagree...

 

its one thing if its a group of buddies out for an afternoon of fun...its completely another thing for an organization to preemptively monopolize an area or crag...

 

its the principle of who was there first...ie, if i get to a cliff before the mountie toolz i have first dibs and they can fuck off and go somewhere else, regardless of what their little preplanned calendar and trip list says...

 

I love it...they "declare" that they are going to an area on such and such a date and get out of their way...

[RuMR]

Did you guys just read what you want to read? Most people, including myself, said communication would have solved this problem.

 

Some people, however, are "blasting" the author for saying that leading is the only way to rock climb and that people who lead climb are better than those who do not. All of which are stupid assumptions to make since he did not talk to anyone.

 

wtf...the CC.com consistency being continued by you 5K by not reading/comprehending the thread and making stupid statements at the end.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

gotta disagree...

 

its one thing if its a group of buddies out for an afternoon of fun...its completely another thing for an organization to preemptively monopolize an area or crag...

 

its the principle of who was there first...ie, if i get to a cliff before the mountie toolz i have first dibs and they can fuck off and go somewhere else, regardless of what their little preplanned calendar and trip list says...

 

I love it...they "declare" that they are going to an area on such and such a date and get out of their way...

 

and there you have it

 

[RuMR]

I said "preemptively"!!!!!

 

now get out of the way...i have to seige Classic Crack...

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Did you guys just read what you want to read? Most people, including myself, said communication would have solved this problem.

 

Some people, however, are "blasting" the author for saying that leading is the only way to rock climb and that people who lead climb are better than those who do not. All of which are stupid assumptions to make since he did not talk to anyone.

 

wtf...the CC.com consistency is being continued by you 5K by not reading/comprehending the thread and making stupid statements at the end. I mean sure kevbone and one or two others said "whoever gets their first" but honestly - everyone?

 

umm, read what I wrote, and then dub yourself stupid.

The term "peanut gallery" does not equate to "everyone", but certainly to a vocal minority here. For some reason you included yourself in that group, not me.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I said "preemptively"!!!!!

 

now get out of the way...i have to seige Classic Crack...

 

It's irrelevant. If someone gets to a route first, and then tries to hog it the whole day, that's bullshit. The group monopolizing the route should politely offer any newcomers a chance to jump on the route if they want to.

 

[Winter]

Etiquette is shot these days - saw a bunch of random behavior at Squish this weekend.

 

Party was setting up to rap into High Mountain Woody while I was topping out on the route, and by the time I got to the anchor it was clogged with their gear. They couldn't walk around or wait ten minutes. Then they rapped down on top of a party getting ready to lead Paul's Crack.

 

Saw a guide climb up someone's ass at the belay station on Exasperator while the leader was moving out towards his first piece and then she ran the rope through the rings, lowered off and TR'd her two clients on the fixed gear.

 

Saw a random rope abandoned altogether at Neat and Cool on Tuesday morning - someone said the guys that set it up took off and hadn't come back in like an hour.

 

Yeah, you have to expect crowds at a place like the Smoke Bluffs on a holiday weekend, but I think a little friendly communication could help. Seems like its getting worse. That said, I didn't speak up when I had the chance at HMW, b/c I figured I'd just suck it up and deal without making an issue of it, so I guess I shouldn't complain.

[RuMR]

going to squish on a holiday is flat fuckin' stupid unless you go find less traveled routes and areas...