Hypocrisy

[StevenSeagal]

Your belief does not make it true.

 

A statement quite often applicable elsewhere.

[bstach]

The REAL goal of this war is to justify spending on the military industrial complex which is another way of saying giving handouts to Cheney and his buddies. This is what war has always been about and always will be. They have a vested interest to drag this out and make the people believe this is about democracy or oil or freedom or whatever smoke screen the masses will believe.

 

Well said.

 

But not well thought out or true.

 

Isn't it fun to pretend this regime is a bunch of inept imbiciles? Ever consider they know exactly what they are doing and everything is going to plan? I don't mean Bush and his cronies, I mean the folks pulling the puppet strings.

[Hugh Conway]

Isn't it fun to pretend this regime is a bunch of inept imbiciles? Ever consider they know exactly what they are doing and everything is going to plan? I don't mean Bush and his cronies, I mean the folks pulling the puppet strings.

 

Occum's Razor.

[akhalteke]

Isn't it fun to pretend this regime is a bunch of inept imbiciles? Ever consider they know exactly what they are doing and everything is going to plan? I don't mean Bush and his cronies, I mean the folks pulling the puppet strings.

 

Occum's Razor.

 

Exactly.

[kevbone]

Scott....don’t you think your view is a little squewed? You are in the military......you are told what to do and how to think. Your commander and chief is the president. Who happens to be a criminal. He has admitted to breaking the law (wire taps). Yet you still follow him blindly. You consistently back up what the US is doing in Iraq. Even though we were lied too as to why we invaded this country in the first place. Now we occupy another county….and for what? Reconstruction? So we invaded them to reconstruct them? Bullshit! Open your eyes my friend. The only thing running this presidency is corporate money, greed. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

[billcoe]

When I was in the military, we could think anything or anyway we wanted. We were still US citizens who have a huge stake in how some of the kinds of things that get so easily and falsely tossed about on this board turned out. You still had a job that needed to get done, as do you Kev right now. I suspect it isn't any difference for Scott or folks in the military now.

[akhalteke]

Scott....don’t you think your view is a little squewed? You are in the military......you are told what to do and how to think.

 

Nope. Yes I am. No I am not.

 

Your commander and chief is the president. Who happens to be a criminal. He has admitted to breaking the law (wire taps). Yet you still follow him blindly. You consistently back up what the US is doing in Iraq.

 

Yes he is. That is TBD. No I don't No I don't.

 

Now we occupy another county….and for what? Reconstruction? So we invaded them to reconstruct them? Bullshit! Open your eyes my friend. The only thing running this presidency is corporate money, greed. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

 

Freedom, dislocating a murderous dictator and reconstructing the destruction that was necessary to do so. My eyes are open. They open at 0500 every morning. The only thing running this presidency is the electoral college which elected him. Actually, the smart aren't getting poorer. I am not rich, just smart, and am making out fairly well as I have a well diversified investment strategy.

[kevbone]

Freedom, dislocating a murderous dictator and reconstructing the destruction that was necessary to do so.

 

This is not the reason we went in....at least it is not the reason that was told to the american public. It is this kind of thinking that scares me.

 

Scott, the reality is, Bush rode the back of 9/11 to invade Iraq. Then they brainwashed folks like you to think it is ok because the dictator was a bastard and needed to be removed. Which is not in question. Sadam was a bastard. But Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and there were no WMD ever found. If we want to hold true to cleansing the earth of bad people....lets start at the top.....CHINA.

 

 

My eyes are open.

 

I dont think so.....

[Jim]

They did have noble goals for reconstruction (though obviosuly they had an agenda) and are trying to adhere to them. Problem is, they forgot one of the primary tennants of warfighting. Always expect the unexpected. You must prognosticate every forseeable move the enemy can make. Mr. Tzu said that a long time ago.

 

Their preparations made reality pale in comparison to any comedy play. When faced with an urgent need to have skilled diplomats restructure a war-torn country, what was one of the leading question asked about their experience and qualifications? How do you stand on Roe v. Wade?

 

You couldn't make this stuff up.

[billcoe]

Bring a link or a copy of some new artical with this will ya Jim, it makes your words and beliefs then have some truth and substance, and can lead to true and real knowledge gains for all of us.

 

When i read folks like Bstatch up there spouting off unfounded opinions that are not even well thought out ones, I stop listening and reading. Why bother to even post a response? If he wants to believe in anything he can dream up - and just toss it out like it's the truth, thats fine for him, when he can't link an artical or story, it's not worth my time.

 

Welcome to the discussion.

[kevbone]

 

when he can't link an artical or story, it's not worth my time.

 

The problem with that Bill is that who says the artical or story has an merit?

[TheJiggler]

How about this . . .

 

O'Beirne's staff posed blunt questions to some candidates about domestic politics: Did you vote for George W. Bush in 2000? Do you support the way the president is fighting the war on terror? Two people who sought jobs with the U.S. occupation authority said they were even asked their views on Roe v. Wade .

[billcoe]

Good find Jiggler. Thank you!

[Jim]

Bring a link or a copy of some new artical with this will ya Jim, it makes your words and beliefs then have some truth and substance, and can lead to true and real knowledge gains for all of us.

 

When i read folks like Bstatch up there spouting off unfounded opinions that are not even well thought out ones, I stop listening and reading. Why bother to even post a response? If he wants to believe in anything he can dream up - and just toss it out like it's the truth, thats fine for him, when he can't link an artical or story, it's not worth my time.

 

Welcome to the discussion.

 

And I would suggest you broaden your reading material to include "Imperial Life in the Emerald City - Inside Iraq's Green Zone" by Rijiv Chandrasekaran. He lays out the bizzare idealogues choosen to "rebuild" Iraq - clueless and wet behind the ears, but steping to the proper tune of the right-wingers. If it weren't so sad it would be funny. Welcome to reality.

 

The Green Zone, Baghdad, 2003: in this walled-off compound of swimming pools and luxurious amenities, Paul Bremer and his Coalition Provisional Authority set out to fashion a new, democratic Iraq. Staffed by idealistic aides chosen primarily for their views on issues such as abortion and capital punishment, the CPA spent the crucial first year of occupation pursuing goals that had little to do with the immediate needs of a postwar nation: flat taxes instead of electricity and deregulated health care instead of emergency medical supplies.

 

In this acclaimed firsthand account, the former Baghdad bureau chief of The Washington Post gives us an intimate portrait of life inside this Oz-like bubble, which continued unaffected by the growing mayhem outside. This is a quietly devastating tale of imperial folly, and the definitive history of those early days when things went irrevocably wrong in Iraq.

 

 

[bstach]

When i read folks like Bstatch up there spouting off unfounded opinions that are not even well thought out ones, I stop listening and reading. Why bother to even post a response? If he wants to believe in anything he can dream up - and just toss it out like it's the truth, thats fine for him, when he can't link an artical or story, it's not worth my time.

 

I'd love top hear you theory, Bill. I just figured your non-response was because you didn't have one. Certainly it is not because USA is a defender of democracy and justice...this is clear from the atrocities where US has NOT intervened. Its my opinion that saying this is a "War on Terror" is clever framing of the debate. Are we any safer from terror now? Or are just causing to be raised up a new generation of terrorists? On the other hand, it certainly a convenient way to get the masses to give up rights and freedoms. I'll post references for my previous post soon, just need to look them up again

[akhalteke]

When i read folks like Bstatch up there spouting off unfounded opinions that are not even well thought out ones, I stop listening and reading. Why bother to even post a response? If he wants to believe in anything he can dream up - and just toss it out like it's the truth, thats fine for him, when he can't link an artical or story, it's not worth my time.

 

I'd love top hear you theory, Bill. I just figured your non-response was because you didn't have one. Certainly it is not because USA is a defender of democracy and justice...this is clear from the atrocities where US has NOT intervened. Its my opinion that saying this is a "War on Terror" is clever framing of the debate. Are we any safer from terror now? Or are just causing to be raised up a new generation of terrorists? On the other hand, it certainly a convenient way to get the masses to give up rights and freedoms. I'll post references for my previous post soon, just need to look them up again

 

Who knows if we are safer form terror. It certainly seems so. These are questions which have answers that belong only to the intelligence community. Agruing about them or the lack of their existence is as futile as me trying to convince you that I am not brainwashed.

 

Kev, you are an imbecile. I have more education than you will ever have, more world experience and have actually been to the places that you act like you have an intimate knowledge of. Your only rhetorts are that GWB is evil and that I am brainwashed. You may not be an idiot, but you sure don't do much for your case.

[akhalteke]

Bring a link or a copy of some new artical with this will ya Jim, it makes your words and beliefs then have some truth and substance, and can lead to true and real knowledge gains for all of us.

 

When i read folks like Bstatch up there spouting off unfounded opinions that are not even well thought out ones, I stop listening and reading. Why bother to even post a response? If he wants to believe in anything he can dream up - and just toss it out like it's the truth, thats fine for him, when he can't link an artical or story, it's not worth my time.

 

Welcome to the discussion.

 

And I would suggest you broaden your reading material to include "Imperial Life in the Emerald City - Inside Iraq's Green Zone" by Rijiv Chandrasekaran. He lays out the bizzare idealogues choosen to "rebuild" Iraq - clueless and wet behind the ears, but steping to the proper tune of the right-wingers. If it weren't so sad it would be funny. Welcome to reality.

 

The Green Zone, Baghdad, 2003: in this walled-off compound of swimming pools and luxurious amenities, Paul Bremer and his Coalition Provisional Authority set out to fashion a new, democratic Iraq. Staffed by idealistic aides chosen primarily for their views on issues such as abortion and capital punishment, the CPA spent the crucial first year of occupation pursuing goals that had little to do with the immediate needs of a postwar nation: flat taxes instead of electricity and deregulated health care instead of emergency medical supplies.

 

In this acclaimed firsthand account, the former Baghdad bureau chief of The Washington Post gives us an intimate portrait of life inside this Oz-like bubble, which continued unaffected by the growing mayhem outside. This is a quietly devastating tale of imperial folly, and the definitive history of those early days when things went irrevocably wrong in Iraq.

 

 

These things would seem a little more important if you took note of the cultural norms in Iraq. What do you think their ideas on abortion are? Capitol punishment? Have you thought about the religious (and in turn social) consequences of such activities? I have no idea what the diplomats are doing in Iraq. They don't discuss it (as well they shouldn't) the only information we get about it is from speculation of interested (and therefore biased) parties.

 

 

[akhalteke]

How about this . . .

 

O'Beirne's staff posed blunt questions to some candidates about domestic politics: Did you vote for George W. Bush in 2000? Do you support the way the president is fighting the war on terror? Two people who sought jobs with the U.S. occupation authority said they were even asked their views on Roe v. Wade .

 

Perhaps this had more to do with cultural adaptation or assimilation than anything else. I have no idea, but I am not as quick to cry wolf as most. You all remember that story right?

[mattp]

Who knows if we are safer form terror. It certainly seems so. These are questions which have answers that belong only to the intelligence community. Agruing about them or the lack of their existence is as futile as me trying to convince you that I am not brainwashed.

 

Lame. Clearly we SHOULD be concerned about whether our government's actions are making us safer or not, and we SHOULD NOT rely upon the "intelligence community" to tell us the answers.

 

 

 

[akhalteke]

Freedom, dislocating a murderous dictator and reconstructing the destruction that was necessary to do so.

 

This is not the reason we went in....at least it is not the reason that was told to the american public. It is this kind of thinking that scares me.

 

Scott, the reality is, Bush rode the back of 9/11 to invade Iraq. Then they brainwashed folks like you to think it is ok because the dictator was a bastard and needed to be removed. Which is not in question. Sadam was a bastard. But Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and there were no WMD ever found. If we want to hold true to cleansing the earth of bad people....lets start at the top.....CHINA.

 

 

My eyes are open.

 

I dont think so.....

 

I have posted about this ad nauseum Kev. It was propaganda. OMG! Politicians using propaganda to get what they want! Say it ain't so! I may npt agree with the reasons to start the war, (or merely the purported reasons) but I am not going to assume that every person in the government is in some grand conspiracy like you. Again, we must remember Occam's Razor as Hugh brought up earlier. What is more likely to be the truth?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Who knows if we are safer form terror. It certainly seems so. These are questions which have answers that belong only to the intelligence community. Agruing about them or the lack of their existence is as futile as me trying to convince you that I am not brainwashed.

 

Lame. Clearly we SHOULD be concerned about whether our government's actions are making us safer or not, and we SHOULD NOT rely upon the "intelligence community" to tell us the answers.

 

 

 

Has there been a terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11?

 

 

[Jim]

These things would seem a little more important if you took note of the cultural norms in Iraq. What do you think their ideas on abortion are? Capitol punishment? Have you thought about the religious (and in turn social) consequences of such activities? I have no idea what the diplomats are doing in Iraq. They don't discuss it (as well they shouldn't) the only information we get about it is from speculation of interested (and therefore biased) parties.

 

Huh? Are you saying that rather than actually having seasoned staff and diplomats who had the knowledge and experience to address the needed political and agency structure that hiring neophytes was a good thing? What a joke. This is one of the many flawed thought processes that lead to the inevitable failures in Iraq, the continued flushing of billions of tax dollars, and the misconstrued logic that got us there in the first place. So rather than get some staff that say, actually know something about restoring public works, it's better to hire right-wingers with no experience but believe that abortion is murder because it supposedly aligns with local traditions? Too rich.

[akhalteke]

Who knows if we are safer form terror. It certainly seems so. These are questions which have answers that belong only to the intelligence community. Agruing about them or the lack of their existence is as futile as me trying to convince you that I am not brainwashed.

 

Lame. Clearly we SHOULD be concerned about whether our government's actions are making us safer or not, and we SHOULD NOT rely upon the "intelligence community" to tell us the answers.

 

 

 

So what sources would you rather use? The Stranger? We have had no attacks on American soil since the invasion. All we have to go on is what the intelligence community tells us.

 

Again, this seems oddly like a conspiacy theorists wet dream on this board. There are problems within the intelligence community, but that doesn't suggest a whitewash conspiracy (which would be necessary to accomplish what you are suggesting.)

[mattp]

... when he can't link an artical or story, it's not worth my time.

 

Welcome to the discussion.

 

I admire your skepticism, Bill, but do you really think you should not consider the opinions of anybody who can't provide links to back up their opinions? Clearly, if somebody like me asserts that we subsidize oil companies you are right to ask yourself: is there a basis for that or is it just urban myth or ideal-driven demagoguery, but Mr. Stash's suggestion that political loyalty and favoritism would color the Bush administration's appointments of post-invasion administrators certainly comports with every thing we have ever heard about virtually any appointment made by Bush and company. Why WOULDN'T you believe it?

 

Billcoe: doubting thomas.

 

 

[TheJiggler]

I know what the diplomats in Baghdad are doing. A whole lot of nothing. They really can't its to dangerous. The new bunker embassy we just built is a joke. The place is so locked down FSO can't really do very much.