kevbone Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Parents, Rabbi Shmuley says, need to realize that discipline is love. "'No' is just as loving as saying 'yes,'" he says. Interesting read What a bunch of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Parents, Rabbi Shmuley says, need to realize that discipline is love. "'No' is just as loving as saying 'yes,'" he says. Interesting read What a bunch of crap. You kidding? The Rabbi nailed it spot on the money. Dead on perfect. Hole in one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 You kidding? Discipline is love? So….spanking is a form of discipline. Is it love when a father spanks the shit out of his kids for some trivial spilling of the milk? No I am not joking…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I didn't see where he mentioned spanking or beating at all. Did you read that artical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Quoted: " (Oprah.com) -- Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, host of a show on Oprah and Friends Radio, says we can't just blame kids for acting bratty or spoiled. Kids today, he says, are exhibiting a lot of anger because they feel neglected by parents who may put careers ahead of family. art.moms.no.o.jpg "The one thing that kids need in huge doses is love," Rabbi Shmuley says. "They're insatiable for it. They're not getting it." Rabbi Shmuley says parents have a hard time teaching discipline and respect for others because of three factors affecting many families. 1. Exhaustion: Parents can't say no because they don't have the energy to do so. 2. Guilt: Not being able to give more of their time, parents often give material gifts instead. 3. A loveless society: Shmuley says "we don't live in a very loving society. People come from broken childhoods; they often have loveless marriages. The only love they get is from their children, so they're afraid to discipline them because they think their children won't love them." Parents, Rabbi Shmuley says, need to realize that discipline is love. "'No' is just as loving as saying 'yes,'" he says. Rebecca, a divorced mother of two who works, knows that she spoils her kids. Since she works a full-time job, she cannot spend as much time with her son and daughter as she would like. "A lot of times I feel like I am Mom and Dad to both of my children," she says. Because she feels guilty about not spending enough time with them, Rebecca says she tends to "overcompensate when they ask me for things ... so I overindulge." Rebecca's children have developed certain techniques to get the things they want. Her 5-year-old son, Brandon, uses "sad eyes." Her daughter, Stephanie, uses peer pressure. "If I really want to get something from my mom," Stephanie says, "I'll come home and I'll be like, 'Mom, all my friends have [it].'" Rebecca says her inability to deny her children's every want is getting out of control. "I want to say no, but it comes out yes," she says. Dr. Robin Smith says Rebecca is trying to make up for her perceived inadequacy as a single working mom by showering Brandon and Stephanie with gifts. This places so much emphasis on material goods that the children are learning to define themselves by material things. "If they were to lose everything -- if the rug gets pulled from underneath us -- you've got to be able to still know that you are good enough," Dr. Robin says. "Right now, if they lose things, they're going to feel empty." The solution to feelings of guilt, Dr. Robin says, won't come from stuff. "I want you to really recognize that what you're trying to do, which is to love them, to make up for your not being there, you can't do it with things. Things will never satisfy and never fill the sacred hole that only a mom and dad can do." As for Rebecca's struggles as a single mom, Dr. Robin says, "You can't be Dad, just be a good mom. Or if you're a dad, just be a good dad. Fill your own sense of being good enough and satisfied and that it's not about what you have ... and then you can feel good about yourself." Do you think your inability to say no is harming your kids? These are three questions you need to ask yourself. Do your children earn the things they get? Some parents reward children who aren't actually doing anything to earn a reward. Dr. Robin says chores are a good way to instill a reward system, even in a 5-year-old. "He could pick up his toys in his room; he could pick up his clothing; he could help his mother take the trash out," she says. "Not because you need [the help], but because it's cultivating being competent and thoughtful." Does your child value things more than people? Unchecked, a craving for possessions will become insatiable, Dr. Robin says. When this happens, it can stifle real emotional development. "I'm not really interested in whether or not I'm building great, healthy relationships," Dr. Robin says. "I'm interested in how many more gadgets I get." Are you trying to soothe your child with things? While new clothes and toys might make your child happy temporarily, that happiness will not last. "I don't want them to be just happy now. I want them to become whole individuals," Dr. Robin says. Like Rebecca, Jeri can't seem to say no to her kids. Not only do Jeri's two teenaged daughters manipulate her, so does her married 23-year-old daughter. Four and half months ago, Jennifer and her husband moved into a second home her parents own, under the agreement that she would pay rent. So far, she hasn't paid anything. When Ashley turned 16, she wanted a sporty car. Though Jeri told Ashley she needed to get a job to pay for it, after a year and a half, Jeri still pays for the insurance and the gas. Jaime sticks to asking her mom for "important stuff -- like shoes," she says. Jeri says she wants to put her foot down, but she just can't say no. And at the end of every month, she says she finds herself strapped for cash. Dr. Robin says Jeri must consider the lessons her daughters are learning. They're completely unable to fend for themselves, and their ability to feel a sense of personal accomplishment has been removed. "You're teaching them, in some ways, how to be victims of you." At the core, Dr. Robin says, the problem is that Jeri spoils Jennifer, Ashley and Jaime in order to avoid something. "And I want to know, what are you trying to avoid?" Dr. Robin asks. "I wonder sometimes maybe if I don't do what they want me to do, maybe they won't love me as much," Jeri says. "I know that's a strong concept, but we need to talk strong because their lives are at stake," Dr. Robin says. "You could actually, although you want to help them, create cripples." Dr. Robin wants to redefine what it means to love a child. "Part of loving your children is to give them boundaries," she says. "What we've seen today is what creates failure." Instead of giving your children everything they want, Dr. Robin wants parents to start living by a "golden rule." "When you say no, you must mean it and stick to it -- period," she says. "If [a parent's] word means nothing, it means that there's no respect. If I'm not respecting you, then I'm disrespecting you ... If you can't live it, your kids can sniff it out." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 kevbone....discipline does not equal spanking. good grief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 I didn't see where he mentioned spanking or beating at all. Did you read that artical? I did read it. I was referring to the “discipline is love” theme he has going on……I was trying to make a point that he is full of shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 The header/title/theme: Mom's gift to kids: 'No!' Good read, thanks Kev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Don't you think you're misinterpreting his use of the word 'discipline'? If I teach a child 'financial discipline', do you think I'm teaching them how to manage their money in order to be financially secure or do you think I'm beating them with socks full of quarters when they spill their milk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
builder206 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 When I think of the word “discipline” in the context of my parents, I think of phrases like no TV on school nights, bear down, stay focused, follow through to the end, don’t be a quitter, always tell the truth, give bad news straight up and right away, work now play later. If I screwed up there were consequences, some quite uncomfortable, but neither ever laid a hand on me. Discipline, and its close cousin self-discipline, is a good thing in league with integrity, fidelity, loyalty, grit. It is unfathomable to me how anyone can make the jump from “discipline” to “beating a child.” Whaling on a little kid who doesn’t have the strength to defend him- or herself is a terrible sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I didn't see where he mentioned spanking or beating at all. Did you read that artical? I did read it. I was referring to the “discipline is love” theme he has going on……I was trying to make a point that he is full of shit. This guy's Mom couldn't agree with you more... u95rq9yIoFI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 When I think of the word “discipline” in the context of my parents, I think of phrases like no TV on school nights, bear down, stay focused, follow through to the end, don’t be a quitter, always tell the truth, give bad news straight up and right away, work now play later. If I screwed up there were consequences, some quite uncomfortable, but neither ever laid a hand on me. Discipline, and its close cousin self-discipline, is a good thing in league with integrity, fidelity, loyalty, grit. It is unfathomable to me how anyone can make the jump from “discipline” to “beating a child.” So true. I have 2 very small children and discipline is quite important. At first my wife would never follow through on her threats of discipline (not beating them but discipling) and it was no surprise when the kids were running a muck. Sometimes, as a very last resort, when all other attempts of discipline have failed we will use the dreaded spanking. No, we are not beating the hell out of our kids but like Bill C has said before, it is a tool. I am also amazed at how well the spanking will work too. Kids NEED loving discipline and boundaries. Look around at how screwed up many of the adults are in our society, now they are raising. Seems like a little more loving discipline could greatly improve our society as a whole. As it is, we have millions of adult spoiled brats running amuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 It is unfathomable to me how anyone can make the jump from “discipline” to “beating a child.” Well....discipline has a negative tone to it.....to me.... Whaling on a little kid who doesn’t have the strength to defend him- or herself is a terrible sin. I so agree. I will never lay a hand on my kids.......mostly because that is not how I was raised......30 years later I still resent my father..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 When I think of the word “discipline” in the context of my parents, I think of phrases like no TV on school nights, bear down, stay focused, follow through to the end, don’t be a quitter, always tell the truth, give bad news straight up and right away, work now play later. If I screwed up there were consequences, some quite uncomfortable, but neither ever laid a hand on me. Discipline, and its close cousin self-discipline, is a good thing in league with integrity, fidelity, loyalty, grit. It is unfathomable to me how anyone can make the jump from “discipline” to “beating a child.” So true. I have 2 very small children and discipline is quite important. At first my wife would never follow through on her threats of discipline (not beating them but discipling) and it was no surprise when the kids were running a muck. Sometimes, as a very last resort, when all other attempts of discipline have failed we will use the dreaded spanking. No, we are not beating the hell out of our kids but like Bill C has said before, it is a tool. I am also amazed at how well the spanking will work too. Kids NEED loving discipline and boundaries. Look around at how screwed up many of the adults are in our society, now they are raising kids of there own. Seems like a little more loving discipline could greatly improve our society as a whole. As it is, we have millions of adult spoiled brats running amuck. Kev, I'm not sure what your parents did to you, but you make it sound like they did beat the hell out of you. Hitting or beating a child (or any other person/pet) out of anger is not discipline, it is assault. My parents gave me spankings when I deserved it and I also remember it was never when they were mad and it always came with plenty of love and affection, as well as an explanation of why I got the spanking in the first place. I certainly don't use that tool nearly as much as the last generation has, but it is still a useful, though reluctant tool to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 At first my wife would never follow through on her threats of discipline (not beating them but discipling) Uh…..if you lay a hand on your children. IMO you are beating them. Sometimes, as a very last resort, when all other attempts of discipline have failed we will use the dreaded spanking. No, we are not beating the hell out of our kids but like Bill C has said before, it is a tool. You might not be beating the hell out of your children….but you are still beating them. I am also amazed at how well the spanking will work too. Kids NEED loving discipline and boundaries. I agree with boundaries…….I find to often that parents will push there agenda on the kids way too much. I like to think of discipline as “positive reinforcement”. I have found that just talking to your children helps, no matter what age. Worst kind of parenting is counting. (son)….you have 3 seconds to comply….1……..2…….3..then what? A beating! I cant even be around that kind of parenting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 every time i've spanked a girl on the bottom she was certainly LOVING it. you like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
builder206 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Pink: rescuing another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 no, i kill threads. that's how i roll, i roll em in flour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 kevbone - just how much experience do you have parenting? don't take this the wrong way, but dealing w/a 4yr old is different than dealing w/a 1 year old is different than dealing w/a 10yr old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 .....30 years later I still resent my father..... ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 kevbone - just how much experience do you have parenting? don't take this the wrong way, but dealing w/a 4yr old is different than dealing w/a 1 year old is different than dealing w/a 10yr old. Not as much as you......that does not change the fact that I will NEVER lay a hand my children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 i don't spank my child Kevin, and i don't have nearly as much experience as many many other people my point goes to the idea of "positive reinforcement". Where are the consequences to negative behaviour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Kevbone [font:Comic Sans MS] Discipline is Elephant Talk [/font] SEUWwyT8xhY Here's some real music for you. I saw these guys in Seattle in 81 Robert Fripp Adrian Belew Tony Levin Bill Bruford It's hard to get better than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Don't you think you're misinterpreting his use of the word 'discipline'? If I teach a child 'financial discipline', do you think I'm teaching them how to manage their money in order to be financially secure or do you think I'm beating them with socks full of quarters when they spill their milk? i think kevbone's momma dropped him on his head one time too many...pity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Well you can get better if you go back to '69 eFQD_Zs7MHQ&feature=related I was a little too young to be going to shows back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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