Cilogear?

[woodchips]

I've had a cilogear pack since last summer which immediately developed a couple of minor problems. After two or three attempts, I finally got through to Graham, who told me to send the pack in for repair. Anyway, I sent it in about 6 weeks ago, and got a reply about 5 weeks ago that he had it and would try to ship it overnight to me to get it back to me in time for a trip.

 

It didn't show up for the trip, which wasn't really a big deal, but I still haven't seen it. And now I'm not getting any replies to my emails. I've read all the great feedback people have about Graham, and I really like the pack, but I've had nothing but frustration with it. I've been trying to be patient, but now I wonder when (or if) I'm ever going to see my pack.

Edited May 5, 2008 by woodchips

[syudla]

I have not had success in getting my pack repaired either. Luckily I never got as far as sending it in since I also had gotten no response from him. So I'll do it myself.

[crackers]

Just a brief response from Graham at CiloGear. I do have the pack, we are working on repairing it, and we have been hard to get in touch with for the past ten weeks. We did not have the fabric to perform the repair, and we needed to order it.

 

As you may or may not be aware, I've been doing my best to run this company by myself while dealing with my wife's disability. She can't walk, can't feed herself, and has been at home since mid February. I'm doing my best to balance taking care of her with taking care of my business. I've been pretty up front about this, posting on my blog and places such as here. My wife's health comes first.

 

In terms of the repair of the pack by the OP, I did try to get the pack done in time for the OP's trip. If my supposition about the identity of the OP is correct, I recall that due to a shipping error, I received the pack more or less the night before it had to get shipped. I did what I could, but it turned out that I needed to order some fabric to get it done. The fabric arrived last week.

 

In the mean time, I received about 300 kg of new backpacks. During the QA process, I discovered that they all had to be rebuilt substantially. I hired a sewer and together we are working as fast as we can to fix these new packs, finish other custom orders that have been substantially delayed due to my wife's disability, and work through the (free) repairs that we have piled up. I've been working 12 to 14 hours a day for the past three weeks, and I've barely spent more than half an hour a day in front of the computer.

 

For the past two weeks, CiloGear has been a two person operation in our office. From one perspective, that means we substantially doubled our capabilities from three weeks ago; from a more realistic view of how much time I've committed to keeping my wife healthy and fed, it's more like tripled our capabilities.

 

We currently have 6 packs in the repair queue, and when our "staff" gets into work in about 7 minutes, we're going to try to knock the repairs out this afternoon. The fabric necessary for all but two of the repairs should be here today. To date, CiloGear has repaired 47 customer packs, and replaced more than a few at little or no charge. Prior to this February, when my wife spent four days in the hospital, the average time for a repair was two weeks.

 

I don't really know what warranty or repair policies other small companies producing alpine climbing packs offer, but I am committed to standing behind our packs. CiloGear tries to balance light weight with some durability; we also seek to minimize our impact on the earth by offering repairs. VX21, whether it's used all over an Andinista, in a BD Predator or in the bottom side panel of our 45L WorkSack, is still just 210d Cordura. It might be magic "Sail Cloth", but it is not magically stronger than the underlying components, and it is a balancing act between durability and weight. We will fix the OP's pack, and it will get back to him.

 

We are not going to accept any more repairs for the time being. When we've cleared our backlog, we will start doing repairs again with a substantially different process management system. I will do my best to hire somebody here in Brooklyn who can take care of it...

 

Apologies all around, and thanks for your business and support.

[underworld]

kudos to crackers!

 

i've seen other 'one man op's' not respond so profesionally to unfavorable reviews.

 

hope things work out for everyone!

[woodchips]

Thanks for the quick reply Graham. I really do understand what you're up against, having been self employed and working for small businesses myself. I realize that repairs can take awhile, and I tried to make it clear that I didn't really have to have my pack back in time for that trip. I just was hoping for more communication.

 

I don't think I have unrealistic expectations of what the material can handle; the (small) problems I had occured on the first trip I took the pack on, and seemed like a reasonable thing to request a repair for.

 

Anyway, I look forward to getting my pack back to show off again. It is a great pack.

[woodchips]

It's been something like 7 weeks now, and still no sign of my pack, nor any word from Graham except for the above post. At this point I'd like to get it back, repaired or not, so I don't have to go out and buy another one. I realize people get busy, but some more communication would be in order.

[olyclimber]

woodchips, i have a pack you can borrow (a Cilogear pack) till you get yours back. he'll make good, i'm not sure what the hang up is.

 

PM me if you need a loaner.

 

edit: I should note that cc.com is not an official retailer or anything of cilogear. i just happen to have an extra cilogear pack in my quiver that i'm offering to loan out in this case. Graham is a "Friend of CC.com" and has donated gear in the past for us to give away (which I did at the past Ropeup).

Edited May 1, 2008 by porter

[pindude]

It's been something like 7 weeks now, and still no sign of my pack, nor any word from Graham except for the above post. At this point I'd like to get it back, repaired or not, so I don't have to go out and buy another one. I realize people get busy, but some more communication would be in order.

 

Patience. Yes, you have concerns but with Graham in NY, you've got to expect at least a full week's shipping time: that's exactly when he made his big response to you, so you haven't given him time to do the actual repair/sewing. You've called him out, he responded just 7 days ago, and he's obviously under some big stresses. I'd wager you'll see the pack in the next few days. If you think more communication is in order, then call him and speak to him directly before you air it again here. You're starting to sound like a whiner.

 

Not to be cutting extra slack, but shit is more likely to happen to the little guys, and I always try to be more understanding of their situations. Each of the two times I had a pack repaired by someone other than the local repair guru, I've had to wait long periods: once for a whole year by one of the best top-end specialty pack manufacturers, and the second time for 6 months by a different "little guy" on the east coast. Each time I was concerned, but each time there was communication such that in end I was happy to have received much better packs than what I'd originally sent. I doubt I would have had the same outcome if I hadn't been persistent in my own personal, direct communication and I'd been airing all my worries over an internet forum.

[Dane]

Graham was difficult to get a hold of and slow to respond when he does answer.

 

I would not call it whining if you aren't getting emails and phone calls returned. I was actually getting a bit pissed.

 

 

 

[pindude]

Dane, you pissed off whiner, you!

 

Seriously, I know you know the score, and while woodchips has legit concerns, I'm pointing out two obvious items since Graham's big laying-it-out-there message of a week ago: (1) it's a full week shipping time between NY and Puget Sound, so give it a few more days. (2) If woodchipper hasn't received the item in a few more days, then he should make an attempt to contact Graham directly.

 

If then there's no response from Graham, then truly woodchipper may have reason to be pissed. I'm not saying woodchips is one of them, but I've seen too many whine on the net about manufacturers. Sometimes it's legit, and sometimes it's not. On the positive side, the net is a great tool for the consumer, especially when dealing with the nameless, big entities and companies out there that don't care. I think Graham does care. And while he's had his problems, I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt and give him a chance.

[billcoe]

Sheesh, it's 7 working days from NY, figure a couple of days for the job assuming he did get the material, and packaging it then paperwork blah blah. th.

[kweb]

As you may or may not be aware, I've been doing my best to run this company by myself while dealing with my wife's disability. She can't walk, can't feed herself, and has been at home since mid February. I'm doing my best to balance taking care of her with taking care of my business. I've been pretty up front about this, posting on my blog and places such as here. My wife's health comes first.

 

Apologies all around, and thanks for your business and support.

 

Did any of you miss this? Give the guy a fucking break. Your pack is the last thing on his mind right now. Be happy your able to get out and enjoy the outdoors, unlike his wife.

 

Graham has shown time and time again that he goes above and beyond what most companies will do. Have a little heart and class while he is going through these tough times.

[crackers]

It's been something like 7 weeks now, and still no sign of my pack, nor any word from Graham except for the above post. At this point I'd like to get it back, repaired or not, so I don't have to go out and buy another one. I realize people get busy, but some more communication would be in order.

\

 

What? Um? Repeated emails on the 23rd of April about where to ship the pack? A pack that got shipped out to YOUR NEW ADDRESS AS YOU REQUESTED?

 

I have to imagine that for some reason you are not getting my emails. As I wrote on the cilogear blog last week, UPS totally screwed us up, and I can't give out tracking numbers for packs shipped from the 23rd of April to 28th of April very easily right now. I called UPS and after about twenty minutes, Ian's tracking number is K107 586 2920. Everybody and their brother can track it. Why it went out from Maspeth on Monday when I shipped it on the 23rd is something I will never be able to explain but is no doubt associated with our UPS accounts screw ups.

 

[crackers]

Graham was difficult to get a hold of and slow to respond when he does answer.

 

I would not call it whining if you aren't getting emails and phone calls returned. I was actually getting a bit pissed.

 

Dane, as I said on the phone when I became aware on Monday that you had made our fourth ever return, I'm sorry that you felt that you received bad customer service. Since you've decided to tell me that you were getting a little pissed on this forum, I am taking the probably maniacal liberty of responding.

 

Dane made our fourth ever return; long story short, the pack he had a look at didn't work for him. That's fine, and the comments that me made during our phone conversation on Monday the 21st of April provided some definite points to consider for the next generation of packs.

 

That said Dane, you did not get an RMA# as our policy dictates (it's on our website), nor do I have any record whatsoever from you giving me any heads up that you're returning the pack. Your box come in on a Wednesday and got put into the repair queue without being opened or examined. That was my mistake, and I take full responsibility for it. As I mentioned to you on the phone, I've changed the procedure for tracking the process with returns and repairs.

 

An email after we close on Friday was the first communication that we received about it being a return. When I got in on Monday, I find the first email, a second email and I try to issue a refund after inspecting the pack. However, since Dane started a paypal dispute over the weekend when we're closed, and I can't issue him a refund. I call you in the morning Pacific Time, we clear it up, and you get your refund. It was less than one working day from when I became aware of your desire for a refund to when you got it.

 

[builder206]

I have had some frustrations with Cilogear that eventually were resolved. Cilogear takes care of business but not very fast. So if you have an issue, take a breath going in and realize things aren't going to happen immediately. Just deal with it.

 

Cilogear has some pull with the shipper they use but Graham has no control over the shipping company itself. (I realized a long time ago that UPS is the crummiest outfit in the world) It is easy to tell factually who screwed up shipping: you, or Graham, or UPS. If it isn't Cilogear's error, stop trying to bust Graham's balls.

 

On those occasions I have spoken to Graham I got the sense that he was working on large-scale business issues like making or shipping dozens or hundreds of packs while also working on individual one-off problems. There are only 24 hours in a day and the two categories of business issues require the owner to take different paths to resolution. I prefer dealing with a business in which I can get the owner on the phone vs. dealing with a once-famous name that is now owned by Megacorp International, whose Luggage Division now "makes" packs.

[crackers]

BTW, for all concerned, if anybody I know of on this board has valid reasons to be pissed with me and CiloGear, it's builder206 who waited six or seven months for a lid(!), and JaredJ who's been waiting for like a year for an accessory we are going to try to actually make here in New York next week.

[woodchips]

It's been something like 7 weeks now, and still no sign of my pack, nor any word from Graham except for the above post. At this point I'd like to get it back, repaired or not, so I don't have to go out and buy another one. I realize people get busy, but some more communication would be in order.

\

 

What? Um? Repeated emails on the 23rd of April about where to ship the pack? A pack that got shipped out to YOUR NEW ADDRESS AS YOU REQUESTED?

 

I have to imagine that for some reason you are not getting my emails. As I wrote on the cilogear blog last week, UPS totally screwed us up, and I can't give out tracking numbers for packs shipped from the 23rd of April to 28th of April very easily right now. I called UPS and after about twenty minutes, Ian's tracking number is K107 586 2920. Everybody and their brother can track it. Why it went out from Maspeth on Monday when I shipped it on the 23rd is something I will never be able to explain but is no doubt associated with our UPS accounts screw ups.

 

Thanks for the update, Graham. I did not get the emails, nor did they show up in my spam folder, so not sure where they went, but it looks like it's on the way. I realize you're up against alot of other problems than my pack, but I've got other things to do than send unanswered emails and wonder where my stuff is. Anyway, thanks again. I look forward to getting the pack back.

 

 

[woodchips]

Sheesh, it's 7 working days from NY, figure a couple of days for the job assuming he did get the material, and packaging it then paperwork blah blah. th.

 

I wasn't expecting miracles, just hoping for replies to my emails and some guess of how long it would take. I know that in my work, a little communication goes a long way. Sometimes you just have to tell people "thats going to take a couple of months," and then they don't get their expectations up. I realize that you can't always expect the same service, but I'll continue to support small gear companies like Cilogear.

[Dane]

Hey Graham, I intentioanllly left off the details of our transcaction simply for your benefit. When some one feels the need to start a Pay Pal complaint because of a lack of communication it is obviously a problem.

 

To your credit you did take care of it.

 

I'll give you a call today.

[crackers]

Dane, FYI we're in and out of telephone reach right now. I'm spending most of my time in the basement cutting and doing QA. The phone does not work down there. As I mentioned during our conversation, your return got screwed up, and as a result I made some adjustments to how we receive packages and track repairs and returns. I screw up sometimes, I own up to it, and I don't really feel like hiding anything for my benefit or not. I would rather lay out the laundry, listen and learn from people's critiques, and make CiloGear a better business.

 

Just as a general head's up, CiloGear's business hours are generally from 9am EST to 4:30pm EST Monday through Friday. We are closed on weekends, major holidays and when we're closed for other purposes we post on the blog. As of the 1st of May 2008, this is a one person business in terms of most things. For instance, when a machine breaks, I leave the office to deal with it. This occurred on Tuesday, and I was out of the office from 10am until the next morning. This meant that nobody was in the office at all on Tuesday. Wednesday was spent entirely catching up with Tuesday, which means today...you get the idea.

[woodchips]

As promised, Graham sent me a NEW pack (which appears to be improved in several ways over the v2 pack), not a repair, and it showed up today. Thanks Graham.

[darstog]

I got the same treatment. Graham definitely seems to me a hard-working dude. I own 2 Cilogear packs... will probably buy more...

[framingmaster]

I ordered a 45 L pack from Graham a couple a couple weeks ago. When I got it I realized the size medium was to big. I sent Graham an email saying it was coming back to trade for a smaller size. He responded back within 48 hours. He also had the smaller size returned to me within a week even with all the stuff going on in his shop. He also answered the phone himself , and took a few minutes to talk to me each time I called. How many big companies can you say that about. Great gear, great guy.

 

Side note. I'm flying out tonight for a couple of days climbing on MT Hood probably Leutholds or Reid head wall. Any body have any weather reports for the next couple of days to share?

[rob]

Graham rocks. Even if I didn't like his packs, I would still buy from the guy. His customer service rocks.

 

That said, I'm on my second cilogear pack (V3 60L) and I FUCKING LOVE IT.

[chrix]

Howdy fellow climbers,

 

chrix here from adkclimbs.com

 

I just wanted to say that the whole ADK crew over here on the east coast has nothing but the best to say for the cilogear packs AND service. I, personally, had a slight tear in my pack. I emailed crackers and within minutes got a very friendly reply stating exactly what to do (as far as shipping etc). Within 3 days, yes 3 days from when I sent the email out, I had the pack back to me. Yes, I do live in NY so 1 day for shipping but you can NOT ask for better service than that.

 

Graham for the win.

 

-chris.