sexual_chocolate Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Carter, who brokered the 1978 Israeli-Egyptian peace and won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002, has defended what he calls his personal peace mission, saying Hamas must be engaged in order to achieve Israeli-Palestinian peace. link this administration is like a 4th grade class: "we don't like you so we won't talk to you. neener neener." Quote
JayB Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 What desirable end would engaging in a dialogue with Hamas achieve, in your estimation? "Hey - how's it going?" "Not bad, not bad." "You guys still determined to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, dreaming of the day when 'Even the rocks and trees will cry out "Oh Muslim, there's a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him..." etc." "Yeah, pretty much." "I see. Keep in touch..." Quote
ivan Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 telling fart jokes together can bring disparate assholes together - why, even today, i was ready to have a big hug w/ kk over the dolphin-sex thing! Quote
sexual_chocolate Posted April 18, 2008 Author Posted April 18, 2008 are you quite serious? hamas has spoken repeatedly (many don't want to hear) about recognizing israel in exchange for concessions. plus, they are the elected leaders of the region; do you really think continuing on the current path is going to lead to anything better? there's a proven track record with that one.... Quote
JayB Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Which concessions - exactly - and how realistic do you think they are? A retreat to the '67 borders, unrestricted right of return for refugees, etc just aren't going to happen. I'm not opposed to a dialogue with unsavory groups if the goal is something more substantial than...dialogue. The fact that the current path isn't likely to lead anywhere doesn't mean that all alternative paths are equally likely to be constructive or worthwhile. I'd prefer to see a series of moves that eliminates Hamas's capacity to blame the conditions on Gaza on other parties, so that the residents there understand what a suicidal medieval death-cult can actually deliver in terms of day-to-day life. One step along those lines might be to exert pressure on Egypt to fully open their borders, port facilities, etc to their "brothers" in Palestine - instead of maintaining a heavily fortified border. Force at least on state in the region to walk the talk with respect to their "brothers" in Palestine... Quote
JayB Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 "You paint the moon green, and then we'll talk..." Quote
sexual_chocolate Posted April 18, 2008 Author Posted April 18, 2008 yes, and is hamas in a position to paint the moon green? Quote
ivan Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 talking, even if only infrequently, leaves open the option of some day making some progress, even if it takes a century Quote
sexual_chocolate Posted April 18, 2008 Author Posted April 18, 2008 A retreat to the '67 borders, your bias is showing. Quote
Bug Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 I have seen middle easterners start out so far apart they are almost at fisticuffs and end up negotiating, bartering and settling before they walk away. Only an idiot would ask for what you want from a middle easterner. Double or triple it and barter. This is the way they work. The fact that they are even talking about accepting Israel is a major shift. They could not offer more and retain support. Ignoring it is planning for war. Quote
sexual_chocolate Posted April 18, 2008 Author Posted April 18, 2008 hey, check out yer avatar boiiiiii. no shit on the lack of communication. that area's been fucked for years, and we want to approach it by ignoring the representatives of the people. methinks we don't want the situation to improve.... Quote
ivan Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 i pretty much fine w/ nuking the entire middle east and renaming it texas we can talk w/ them before we do it Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 i pretty much fine w/ nuking the entire middle east and renaming it texas we can talk w/ them before we do it You and SOD: Fuck the middle east There's too many problems They just get in the way We sure could live without them They hijack our planes They raise our oil prices We'll kill them all and have a ball And end their fuckin' crisis BEIRUT, LEBANON-Won't exist once we're done LIBYA, IRAN-We'll flush the bastards down the can SYRIANS and SHIITES-Crush their faces with our might Then Israel and Egypt can live in peace without these dicks Quote
sexual_chocolate Posted April 18, 2008 Author Posted April 18, 2008 that's not the way the bonobos would do it. i say we let Khaled Mashaal mount GW. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 that's not the way the bonobos would do it. i say we let Khaled Mashaal mount GW. Now I question why Obama wants this job so badly. Quote
JayB Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 A retreat to the '67 borders, your bias is showing. Indeed. If the realities brought into existence by forty years of history needn't be acknowledged, and if facts on the ground needn't be addressed or incorporated into the dialogue, I see little reason to stop there. How about basing the negotiations on the pre-condition that we restore the borders to their pre-1948 boundaries. Hell, why stop there, why not make the starting point a return to the boundaries that predated the Balfour Declaration... Quote
JayB Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 talking, even if only infrequently, leaves open the option of some day making some progress, even if it takes a century I'm just trying to get an idea of what the substance of the conversation would be. Seems to me that having conversations in the absence of a central set of common objectives that you are both interested and committed to achieving is not likely to be terribly fruitful. As long as Hamas is committed to the destruction of Israel, and the US is opposed to their doing so - it seems like there's very little in the way of common goals that provide a basis for a constructive dialogue. There are plenty of examples where foes find a basis for cooperation compelling enough to cooperate. I'm not personally convinced that Hamas any constructive political end in mind that we or any other civilized society would have any end in furthering. But hey - I could be wrong. The children are the hope of the future... b0U2ce-LmA4 Quote
Fairweather Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Carter should lose his passport. He is giving his (undeserved) legitimacy to a group of murdering thugs. How did Hamas respond to Israel's withdrawal from Gaza? Anybody?? Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Carter should lose his passport. He is giving his (undeserved) legitimacy to a group of murdering thugs. How did Hamas respond to Israel's withdrawal from Gaza? Anybody?? I'm at a loss as to why we sent such a small diplomatic delegation for these important talks. At a minimum Carter should have been accompanied by Jim McDermott and Sean Penn. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Carter should lose his passport. He is giving his (undeserved) legitimacy to a group of murdering thugs. How did Hamas respond to Israel's withdrawal from Gaza? Anybody?? I'm at a loss as to why we sent such a small diplomatic delegation for these important talks. At a minimum Carter should have been accompanied by Jim McDermott and Sean Penn. You guys can't possibly be this stone stupid. Carter's visit was approved by the State Department and undoubtedly sanctioned by the White House for its valuable information gathering purposes. Why would the White House not want to know what Hamas's plans, agenda, and interests are? Quote
sexual_chocolate Posted April 18, 2008 Author Posted April 18, 2008 Carter should lose his passport. He is giving his (undeserved) legitimacy to a group of murdering thugs. How did Hamas respond to Israel's withdrawal from Gaza? Anybody?? i think YOU should lose your passport. it's you and your ilk that are destroying this country, as evidenced by the last 8 years. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Carter should lose his passport. He is giving his (undeserved) legitimacy to a group of murdering thugs. How did Hamas respond to Israel's withdrawal from Gaza? Anybody?? i think YOU should lose your passport. it's you and your ilk that are destroying this country, as evidenced by the last 8 years. ORLY!! well I think YOU and YOUR ILK should lose YOUR passport!!!!! neener neener neener!!!! Quote
JayB Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Carter should lose his passport. He is giving his (undeserved) legitimacy to a group of murdering thugs. How did Hamas respond to Israel's withdrawal from Gaza? Anybody?? i think YOU should lose your passport. it's you and your ilk that are destroying this country, as evidenced by the last 8 years. Some rare deviations from the Buddhist-seance-tone in the last couple of posts... Quote
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