tomtom Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 alert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madeinmontana Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 RuMr, Check you elist attitude at the door. It is a public area. There are many better climbs in Leavenworth in locations other than those listed above. Cragging in easily accessible areas requires some flexibility on everyones part. I am quite sure that a BOEALPS group wouldn't force anyone off of a climb. Yes, they may be waiting for you to finish, but this is true of most crowded cragging areas. If the group already happens to be there, deal with it, and come up with a new plan. The skills gained in these types of outings protects the lives of those learning them. I am proud that I have taken these courses in order to better ensure the safety of myself and those I climb with. It has allowed me to progress quickly while remaining safe. I also doubt I would still hear complaints when one of us is rescuing you with a system learned on a weekend spent taking "your" climbing space in Leavenworth. I appreciate the climbing community because it is generally composed of good natured and cooperative personalities. If you would like to join this community, let us know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Hope Gent limits the amount of participants. Chemekata is a community college, so in response to the question I expect thats what a Chemekatan is. 2 Gent pics below, a finer gentleman cannot be found. Fender, have a good time, your notifications are really nice and appreciated by many. I stopped being a guide and "teacher" @20 years ago as it seemed to me that I was being part of the problem by introducing more and more folks to the game that was then starting to become crowded, so I stopped. I have no issues with those who do, I'm just saying that was my take then, and I can understand why you might not be doing the outings next year as you note. I bump into groups on occasion and it never seems to be an issue, if you want to climb ya climb, or move on, not been any issues for me. BTW, my thoughts are anytime I leave a rope on a route, it means you can use that rope if it's free. Think of it as an enabler. Or pull it if you want, makes no trouble either way. It can get back up there the same way it got there the first time. Hope ya stay mostly dry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 opps- there is a Chemekata Community College though. _______________________________________________ "Who We Are The Club: The Chemeketans is a not-for-profit organization founded in 1928 united in a common interest in outdoor activities. The Chemeketans is a membership organization with about 700 members based in Salem, Oregon. Our primary activity is day hiking but includes many other outdoor activities and special events as well. We schedule cross-country ski trips, snowshoe outings, bicycle trips, canoe trips, backpacks, mountain climbs, picture nights, and other events such as museum trips and car camps. We help build and maintain trails too. We own a mountain cabin and schedule overnight trips there. We have a program for those who wish to share in the club's ever expanding commitment to conservation of natural resources. We have an annual banquet and a Christmas and Halloween party. Our most ambitious single event is a two-week Annual Outing which provides meals and activities for up to 100 people per week at a distant campsite. The Name: "Chemeketa" is a Native American name which roughly translates as "meeting place." It was the name that indigenous peoples used for what is now the Salem area. Contact Information: The club has no telephone number. Our mailing address is: The Chemeketans, P.O. Box 864, Salem OR 97308. Send questions about the club and membership to the Membership Secretary. Meetings: We don't have regularly scheduled membership meetings other than our annual business meeting. We gather somewhere in Salem prior to activities to register and arrange car-pooling. Activities are published in abbreviated form on the Activities Calendar and with contact information in our monthly Bulletin." From here: link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 incredibly painful rock? Huh? I have yet to need tape there... jeebus...maybe i need to start soaking my hands in formaldhyde? tc's the only place i've ever taped and thought it mandatory- layton and i only had enough to do half our hands, and i recall bleeding like a stuck pig only 10 feet off the ground. i am, of course, a cheap hack though and make no claims to master tech-nique! tc's is certainly much grittier and coarse than the basalt of the portland area or the smith gorge. it seemed like god had just gone over all of the basalt blocks wiht a great big sandy paint brush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 incredibly painful rock? Huh? I have yet to need tape there... jeebus...maybe i need to start soaking my hands in formaldhyde? tc's the only place i've ever taped and thought it mandatory- layton and i only had enough to do half our hands, and i recall bleeding like a stuck pig only 10 feet off the ground. i am, of course, a cheap hack though and make no claims to master tech-nique! tc's is certainly much grittier and coarse than the basalt of the portland area or the smith gorge. it seemed like god had just gone over all of the basalt blocks wiht a great big sandy paint brush. What he didn't say is that he's never been there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 (edited) RuMr, Check you elist attitude at the door. It is a public area. There are many better climbs in Leavenworth in locations other than those listed above. Cragging in easily accessible areas requires some flexibility on everyones part. I am quite sure that a BOEALPS group wouldn't force anyone off of a climb. Yes, they may be waiting for you to finish, but this is true of most crowded cragging areas. If the group already happens to be there, deal with it, and come up with a new plan. The skills gained in these types of outings protects the lives of those learning them. I am proud that I have taken these courses in order to better ensure the safety of myself and those I climb with. It has allowed me to progress quickly while remaining safe. I also doubt I would still hear complaints when one of us is rescuing you with a system learned on a weekend spent taking "your" climbing space in Leavenworth. I appreciate the climbing community because it is generally composed of good natured and cooperative personalities. If you would like to join this community, let us know. i seriously doubt that the mounties will be rescuing me anytime soon... although, from what i've seen, it could quite likely be the reverse... i have no wish to join that community...and i don't have an elitist attitude...it is YOU that have it..."uhmmm, we are here teaching a class...please step aside"... Edited April 17, 2008 by RuMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 (edited) incredibly painful rock? Huh? I have yet to need tape there... jeebus...maybe i need to start soaking my hands in formaldhyde? tc's the only place i've ever taped and thought it mandatory- layton and i only had enough to do half our hands, and i recall bleeding like a stuck pig only 10 feet off the ground. i am, of course, a cheap hack though and make no claims to master tech-nique! tc's is certainly much grittier and coarse than the basalt of the portland area or the smith gorge. it seemed like god had just gone over all of the basalt blocks wiht a great big sandy paint brush. What he didn't say is that he's never been there. i've been there...personally, the texture stops the sliding in the crack, which in turn, stops the tearing... I don't tape much of anywhere though... Edited April 17, 2008 by RuMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 and i don't have an elitist attitude... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madeinmontana Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 i seriously doubt that the mounties will be rescuing me anytime soon... although, from what i've seen, it could quite likely be the reverse... ok then build me a safe, efficient rescue system from memory in an acceptable amount of time. I am sure you dilegently review these things so it should be no problem.... This is taught in a BOEALPS course, and something I am sure you would be glad other people know when you get yourself into trouble. Unless you are too proud to be rescued by a graduate of one of these riduculous classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I think RuMR is only pointing out in his inimitable style that climbing ability and judgment are equally important to rescue systems and knots. The best safety is not to need to be rescued to begin with. I hope the class goes very well for everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 i seriously doubt that the mounties will be rescuing me anytime soon... although, from what i've seen, it could quite likely be the reverse... ok then build me a safe, efficient rescue system from memory in an acceptable amount of time. I am sure you dilegently review these things so it should be no problem.... This is taught in a BOEALPS course, and something I am sure you would be glad other people know when you get yourself into trouble. Unless you are too proud to be rescued by a graduate of one of these riduculous classes. pretty big leap of yours to just assume that if you didn't attend one of your rinky dinky classes that there is no other way of getting knowledge, don'tcha think??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I think RuMR is only pointing out in his inimitable style that climbing ability and judgment are equally important to rescue systems and knots. The best safety is not to need to be rescued to begin with. I hope the class goes very well for everybody. Matt, i always bring my ten essentials and a tauntan or two... Fender...sorry for busting your chops (i do recognize that you were just posting a "heads up", very courteous) but i HATE organized climbing with a passion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madeinmontana Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 The best safety is not to need to be rescued to begin with. I completly agree. Judgement is probably more important than anything else. Some of this can be gained by listening to higly experienced instructors while also preparing for the worst. Even the best, most cautious climbers can get hurt. However, I believe RuMR's issues were not with the apparently reckless climbing style being taught in classes, but rather the confiscation of HIS rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madeinmontana Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 pretty big leap of yours to just assume that if you didn't attend one of your rinky dinky classes that there is no other way of getting knowledge, don'tcha think??? Not really. I'm sure quite a few people don't bother to learn this stuff. And calling it rinky dink is insulting to those teaching the classes. Many of them with experience that may actually surpass your own (GASP). DON'TCHA THINK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 (edited) The best safety is not to need to be rescued to begin with. I completly agree. Judgement is probably more important than anything else. Some of this can be gained by listening to higly experienced instructors while also preparing for the worst. Even the best, most cautious climbers can get hurt. However, I believe RuMR's issues were not with the apparently reckless climbing style being taught in classes, but rather the confiscation of HIS rocks. oh...i get it..."my rocks"... Last time i checked, i wasn't reserving many cliffs for a weekend...how about you?? You sure seem to take offense to me taking offense at an ORGANIZATION... Edited April 17, 2008 by RuMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 pretty big leap of yours to just assume that if you didn't attend one of your rinky dinky classes that there is no other way of getting knowledge, don'tcha think??? Not really. I'm sure quite a few people don't bother to learn this stuff. And calling it rinky dink is insulting to those teaching the classes. Many of them with experience that may actually surpass your own (GASP). DON'TCHA THINK? it is a big assumption to talk to a complete stranger (me) and make assumptions about my climbing experience... Nowhere have i ripped yours... And frankly, i've seen a lot of "instructors" that are a complete joke...and in a position to get people really fucked up...yeah, sure there are highly qualified people everywhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 (edited) actually, maidinmontana, you are right...most of the climbers on this website (or elsewhere)who didn't get formal training are complete jokes... [DRIPPING SARCASM] Edited April 17, 2008 by RuMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 (edited) If you see RuMR over at your cliff, just hit him with your biggest BigBro and he'll crumple. But if he gets on the rock, you'll never catch him. Okay, okay, a disclaimer. I have learned a lot from AMGA Certified Guides. If the instructors of any class have those credentials, then I am sure the class will be worthy. But I have also had scary advice from people that shouldn't have been instructing. Edited April 17, 2008 by matt_warfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 i'm slow these days...too much work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 pretty big leap of yours to just assume that if you didn't attend one of your rinky dinky classes that there is no other way of getting knowledge, don'tcha think??? Not really. I'm sure quite a few people don't bother to learn this stuff. And calling it rinky dink is insulting to those teaching the classes. Many of them with experience that may actually surpass your own (GASP). DON'TCHA THINK? Montana Dude: quit while you are behind. This is painful to watch. RuMR: why do you torment everyone so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madeinmontana Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 actually, maidinmontana, you are right...most of the climbers on this website (or elsewhere)who didn't get formal training are complete jokes... [DRIPPING SARCASM] Could you point me to where I said that? I do however remember you saying "not really...as mounties/boealps attracts morons... " This is much more presumptious than anything I have said here and most certainly "rips" on the experience level of those associated with these classes. I don't care where you get your knowlege as long as you have it. I gladly climb with people who haven't taken a class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 ding ding...round 3 (or 4) here we go here we go... So, i guess you "implying" that you'll be "rescuing" me sometime soon wasn't a jab??? and how's my jabbing the mounties/boealps a personal attact on you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogdortheBurninator Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 How many mounties/boealps/et al. successful difficult rescues have been carried out over the years where these essential skills have actually been put to the test in a non-trivial manner? Are these trained groups really any less likely to need the help of SAR professionals than their self taught or informally taught cohort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 short answer...NO, they aren't really less likely to need professional help anymore than others as a group... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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