road cycling

[tvashtarkatena]

You can measure your AT by performing a Conconi test on yourself. For simple exercise (cycling, running) the relationship between HR and speed is linear. At a HR above your AT, the slope of the HR versus speed line decreases abruptly.

 

Get on a treadmill or exercise bike and warm up for 15 minutes.

 

Increase speed every 2 minutes. Measure your HR at the end of each interval. Do this until your start to feel lactic acid buildup in your legs, you begin to wobble, and you finally puke all over the horrified geriatric next to you who is just trying to survive the twilight of their years in peace.

 

Plot end of interval HR verses speed on a graph. You should see a definite crook in the line where your HR versus speed slope suddenly changes: that's your AT.

 

AT can also be estimated as your average HR during a 15km race, and other ways, but how accurate is that?

Edited March 22, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

A 5 zone training system is useful for developing different aspects of fitness. The following table gives the heart rates for each zone as % of MHR (this varies individually), and what aspects of fitness training in each zone improves.

 

 

Z - %MHR - Training benefit

 

Z1 <65% rest

Z2 65% stroke, O2, BV, Cap, fat

Z3 75% stroke, O2, BV, Cap, fat

Z4 80% VO2mx, AT

Z5 90% VO2mx, AT, LAC, Nerve

 

Training Benefit Definitions:

 

Stroke = stroke volume (amount of blood pumped per beat), O2=capacity to use oxygen, BV=overall blood volume, which increases with fitness, Cap=capillary penetration into the muscles, fat=fat burning rate, VO2Mx=maximum oxygen usage rate, AT=Anaerobic threshold, which can be increased with training, LAC=ability to tolerate and flush lactic acid, and thus prevent buildup, and Nerve=training your nerves for more efficient motion

 

 

The primary, but not sole source for all this is a book called "Training for Strength and Endurance". I loaned the book out so I can't cite the authors right now.

 

Edited March 22, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[KaskadskyjKozak]

You can measure your AT by performing a Conconi test on yourself. For simple exercise (cycling, running) the relationship between HR and speed is linear. At a HR above your AT, the slope of the HR versus speed line decreases abruptly.

 

Get on a treadmill or exercise bike and warm up for 15 minutes.

 

Increase speed every 2 minutes. Measure your HR at the end of each interval. Do this until your start to feel lactic acid buildup in your legs, you begin to wobble, and you finally puke all over the horrified geriatric next to you who is just trying to survive the twilight of their years in peace.

 

Plot end of interval HR verses speed on a graph. You should see a definite crook in the line where your HR versus speed slope suddenly changes: that's your AT.

 

AT can also be estimated as your average HR during a 15km race, and other ways, but how accurate is that?

 

How accurate are the hear rate devices that are built in to gym equipment? seems like the easiest way to do this.

 

I definitely feel I'm working hard between 165 and 170 beats/min, and feel very uncomfortable at 185 (according to the built-in device).

 

[Dane]

How accurate are the hear rate devices that are built in to gym equipment? seems like the easiest way to do this.

 

A good one, can be very accurate. I test our gym's by comparing it to my Polar wrist Monitor

 

I definitely feel I'm working hard between 165 and 170 beats/min, and feel very uncomfortable at 185 (according to the built-in device).

 

Perceived exertion is one way to test for AT. It is not the best way but will get you in the ballpark generally. You have to remember that AT is a moving target. Ballpark will work for some and not for others depending on what you what the info for and how you train. Your AT might well be between 170 and 185. But to work the most efficiently you'll want a more precise target and a way to recognize that target.

 

With some history of matching perceived exertion to actual HR/AT (by using a monitor) you can judge the relationship very closely.

 

An easy (easy being a relative term as it is extremely hard work done right) way to test AT that is by continual testing in time trials. You can do that on the bike or by running with a simple heart rate monitor that gives MHR and Average HR. Info is available on the details/distances and percentages you'll use in the tests are in most cycle or running training books or Polar's web site I suspect. And are very easy yo apply to come up with your own results.

 

The cycle and triathlon info has been using HR monitors the longest and the best info is usually found there. All of it easily applies to climbing.

 

AT will change for sport and as our fitness changes. Testing often and accurately is the best answer. The more often you test the more accurate and current your training info will be.

 

 

 

[Dane]

AT can also be estimated as your average HR during a 15km race, and other ways, but how accurate is that?

 

Done right, using the proper distances and percentages to get the AT it can be very accurate from race results. More so than the generic $500 lab testing. Why? Because most will push harder in a race than they will in testing for all the obvious reasons.

 

Most runners will find it easier to use 5 and 10 K race results, cycling 15 or 20K TTs.

 

[i_like_sun]

i read once that running and cycling are almost identical for training

 

biking longer distances in the same amount of time as running just feels better.

 

 

Yeah except for the fact that professional road bikers have the lower extremity bone density of 80 year old women.

 

 

In terms of training for climbing, I believe running is superior for a few reasons:

 

1) The high loading in running makes it the best bone-building exercise possible. So especially if you are female, running now can help prevent osteoporosis. Also, the high eccentric impulses into the lower extremity causes more deep tissue breakdown, thus over time making the muscles and connective tissues denser and much stronger (if you don't overtrain).

 

2) There is a greater "transfer of training" effect. Running (especially on uneven and steep terrain) makes for a very similar set of movement patterns as in hiking. Because of this you are training the same balance patterns and exact muscles as in climbing (well, speaking of the hiking part that is).

 

I also find it interesting that the literature shows that barefoot runners have the lowest incidence of lower extremity injury.....

[tvashtarkatena]

 

How accurate are the hear rate devices that are built in to gym equipment? seems like the easiest way to do this.

 

I definitely feel I'm working hard between 165 and 170 beats/min, and feel very uncomfortable at 185 (according to the built-in device).

 

The new treadmills at my gym pick up the signal from my chest strap, so they give the same reading. The grip sensors on the treadmills are within 1 or 2 beats of my watch HRM at slow speeds, but become less accurate at higher speeds. Plus, grabbing the grip sensors greatly reduces your effort and slows your HR back down. Best to have a chest strap read by the exercise equipment.

 

If you can maintain a 'work hard' pace for the duration of a 10k race, 45 minutes to an hour or so, that's probably close to your AT.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

If you can maintain a 'work hard' pace for the duration of a 10k race, 45 minutes to an hour or so, that's probably close to your AT.

 

yes, that's about right.

 

[luvshaker]

Does anyone have knowledge on how to train through, not train, or train around your average cold? I have been getting bamboozeled by colds this year and they are killing me to try and work out through, or killing me NOT to work out through.

How about what you take to fight it????

Edited March 24, 2008 by luvshaker

[i_like_sun]

I do less cardio and focus on light resitance stuff when I am sick.

 

What I've learned is that there is a major immune response difference between catabolic and anabolic exercise. The difference between the two is the hormonal response to each - catabolic exercise (cardio) generally releases more corisol than resistance training and will break down a greater degree of immune biomolecules. Keeping the intensity low on resistance training will minimize stress hormone release while stimulating the release of testosterone and growth hormone, both of which will build up your immune system.

 

You also need to ask: why are you getting sick? Are you underweight? Are you constantly overtraining? Do you neglect your sleep schedule? Are you always cold? Diet etc....

 

I hope this helps some.

[tvashtarkatena]

While we're on the subject...some symptoms of overtraining (which, of course, be symptoms of a lot of things):

 

Sleep disturbance.

 

Chronic fatigue and disinterest.

 

Decreased workout performance.

 

Rapid weight loss.

 

Elevated resting heart rate.

 

Being physically removed from the stairclimber by a bio hazard team after you've lost control of all alimentary functions.

[luvshaker]

Great feedback...Thank you.

 

When I have a cold, I don't feel a bit like pulling hard bouldering, but I can stand doing an endurance workout on the wall.

Likewise, I feel fine when my heart rate in zone 3 or lower cycling, zone 4/5, body hurts bad during excercise and the next day. I have tried to use "sick days" to do long distance slow pace rides, or just rest.

 

 

 

****You also need to ask: why are you getting sick? Are you underweight? Are you constantly overtraining? Do you neglect your sleep schedule? Are you always cold? Diet etc....

 

Yes, loosing weight. Yes, trying to get in shape. Yes, little kids. Yes, first time ever. Also including a difficult work schedule, diet is good. Guess it's pretty obvious why.

It's funny how someone can get away with this lifestyle in the summer and not get sick, but the winter will get you.

 

Thanks again,

Lee

 

[i_like_sun]

Great feedback...Thank you.

 

When I have a cold, I don't feel a bit like pulling hard bouldering, but I can stand doing an endurance workout on the wall.

Likewise, I feel fine when my heart rate in zone 3 or lower cycling, zone 4/5, body hurts bad during excercise and the next day. I have tried to use "sick days" to do long distance slow pace rides, or just rest.

 

 

 

****You also need to ask: why are you getting sick? Are you underweight? Are you constantly overtraining? Do you neglect your sleep schedule? Are you always cold? Diet etc....

 

Yes, loosing weight. Yes, trying to get in shape. Yes, little kids. Yes, first time ever. Also including a difficult work schedule, diet is good. Guess it's pretty obvious why.

It's funny how someone can get away with this lifestyle in the summer and not get sick, but the winter will get you.

Thanks again,

Lee

 

 

Thats because in the winter the air is cold and wet, and its dark: meaning that our immune systems are already working overtime. I've actually read that simply being in the sun increases anabolic hormone levels..... not to mention feelings of wellbeing. I don't have any good research on this, but it all seems to fit together.

[Couloir]

Washing your hands helps.

[chucK]

In the winter time it's cold and wet and so people tend to stay inside and keep the house closed tightly, which makes you much more likely to get infected by the other shut-ins. Cold air and wet does not weaken your immune system, though getting totally beat down by overdoing it and getting near-hypothermic may do so.

 

Sunshine-vitamin D-immune system, look it up or wait for the G-spotter post coming in a a few.

 

Little kids are a triple whammy of not getting enough sleep, staying more shut in, and the fact that they're little disease incubators constantly secreting. Especially bad if your kid(s) is(are) going to school/daycare to pick up all the various stuff from other families and bringing it home. Washing hands, very important here.

[tvashtarkatena]

I recently did a Conconi test on myself to find out my AT for running on an inclined treadmill. I did it in two sessions, the first to establish a rough AT, the second to establish an exact AT. Both went quickly, and the results were very accurate (within a BPM).

 

Test 1:

 

Warm up at 3 mph, 15 degree incline for 10 minutes.

 

At T = 10 minutes, record HR, then increase speed +.3 mph for 2 minutes, then record HR again.

 

Plot speed versus HR on graph paper. The line should abruptly decrease in slope (but remain linear) at some point; the HR at that point is your rough AT. Take note of the last recorded treadmill speed just before you reached your AT.

 

Test 2:

 

Warm up at 3 mph, 15 degree incline for 10 minutes. Use whatever settings will get you into the low end of your target heart rate, generally 60% or so of your MHR.

 

At T = 10 minutes, increase speed to your last recorded treadmill speed just before you reached your AT from test 1. After 3 minutes at that speed, record your HR, then keep increasing speed +.1 mph for 2 minutes, recording your HR at the end of each interval until you can't go anymore.

 

Plot the results on your graph as before. This more fine tuned test should give you your current AT (for running on a treadmill) to within a BPM.

 

 

 

[Robert Howell]

i read once that running and cycling are almost identical for training

 

biking longer distances in the same amount of time as running just feels better.

 

 

Yeah except for the fact that professional road bikers have the lower extremity bone density of 80 year old women.

 

 

In terms of training for climbing, I believe running is superior for a few reasons:

 

1) The high loading in running makes it the best bone-building exercise possible. So especially if you are female, running now can help prevent osteoporosis. Also, the high eccentric impulses into the lower extremity causes more deep tissue breakdown, thus over time making the muscles and connective tissues denser and much stronger (if you don't overtrain).

 

2) There is a greater "transfer of training" effect. Running (especially on uneven and steep terrain) makes for a very similar set of movement patterns as in hiking. Because of this you are training the same balance patterns and exact muscles as in climbing (well, speaking of the hiking part that is).

 

I also find it interesting that the literature shows that barefoot runners have the lowest incidence of lower extremity injury.....

 

I think it is a combination of the two. I simply cannot do my 2-3 hour intervals or hill routines more than twice a week. My legs get absolutely destroyed. Biking kicks my ass and my legs feel great the next day.

 

So, for those who cannot give up running altogether just run a little bit less and start cycling.

[dmuja]

I do less cardio and focus on light resitance stuff when I am sick.

 

What I've learned is that there is a major immune response difference between catabolic and anabolic exercise. The difference between the two is the hormonal response to each - catabolic exercise (cardio) generally releases more corisol than resistance training and will break down a greater degree of immune biomolecules. Keeping the intensity low on resistance training will minimize stress hormone release while stimulating the release of testosterone and growth hormone, both of which will build up your immune system.

 

Its kinda weird to define exercise as 'differing between catabolic and anabolic' as ALL TYPES of physical training when done correctly (we're talking about "fitness training", not elite racing which is detrimental to long term health and fitness) involves both catabolic and anabolic phases.

 

As to training with your average 3-5 day cold, the larger point on certain exercises and intensity levels coinciding with higher/longer cortisol release (and thus suppressive effects on the immune system) is correct though, but I would probly just say step it down a few notches and do light intensity exercise (whether easy strength training or easy cardio - youre choice) depending on the severity of the sickness.

[tvashtarkatena]

Yeah. It seems as though someone here has confused the terms anabolic/catabolic with anaerobic/aerobic.

 

I just wish that I'd known about the barefoot running/bone growth phenomenon earlier in life. I could have saved so much money on footwear and had really big, thick bones by now.

Edited April 14, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[lizard_brain]

I've been a distance runner for a few years. I bought a bike and jumped on and started riding 20, 30, 40 miles at a time no problem. Then I developed tendinitis in my lower shin - from riding. I had all of the cardio and the muscles, but the connective tissues for the pedal turning motion didn't like it. I started out too hard. I'm now side-lined, and can't do either! I'm screwed out of doing the North Olympic marathon in June, but will probably be healed enough to to the half. I'm always cautious about run training, didn't think about biking the same way - just rode like hell. As a result I could barely walk 200 feet without going into agony. Stupid mistake on my part.

 

Couple more weeks and I'll start the marathon training again, and start riding the bike to work again. I'll just ease into BOTH istead of ramping up all at once.

 

Live and learn.

[tvashtarkatena]

What's the old rule? Ramp up by no more than 10% per week. That's always worked for me. The one time I violated it training for a marathon I immediately got shin splints.

[lizard_brain]

ALSO:

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm waiting to get over this so I can get out and ride (and run) some more! I just have to ease into it, like I did running, and THEN start doing 40, 50, and 100 mile, multi-day trips.

 

Someone asked about forums like this - I'll second bikeforums.net .

 

As for expenes, yeah just like climbing, it's a black hole for money. And it's not just the bike itself. All the things you 'need' to go with it if you keep riding more and more... Shorts, pump, helmet, lights, rack, panniers, lock, gloves, fenders, the list is potentially endless. I find I like doing my own work on my bike instead of taking it to a shop, so that saves some $$$, and it's a lot more satisfying. I just take it in when they have some expensive specialized tool that I don't have.

 

Have fun!

[lizard_brain]

What's the old rule? Ramp up by no more than 10% per week. That's always worked for me. The one time I violated it training for a marathon I immediately got shin splints.

 

Exactly. That's what I always stuck to while running. I bought that bike, and did no less than 20-30 miles each ride the first couple of weeks just tooling around town. I'd go for a 10-15 mile ride, and take a 10-15 mile side-trip on the way home. I just liked riding it, and couldn't get myself off of it. Didn't stop to consider the potential consequences....

[ken4ord]

While mountains remain my first love, biking is cheaper, less weather-dependent, and doesn't require a partner.

 

I would agree with everything you said except for cycling being cheaper. All of my climbing equipment put together, that is ice gear, rock gear, technical clothing and climbing wall is probably around $6000. All of which hardly ever breaks or needs to be replace. I have over $7000 in just the bikes alone, not to mention all of the other tools, clothing, parts. Then there is the repairing of my mountain bike at least every month I am replacing or fixing something. At least my road bike I can get away with yearly maintenance. I still love cycling especially in a place when the opportunity to climb is not often enough.

[ken4ord]

I recently did a Conconi test on myself to find out my AT for running on an inclined treadmill. I did it in two sessions, the first to establish a rough AT, the second to establish an exact AT. Both went quickly, and the results were very accurate (within a BPM).

 

Test 1:

 

Warm up at 3 mph, 15 degree incline for 10 minutes.

 

At T = 10 minutes, record HR, then increase speed +.3 mph for 2 minutes, then record HR again.

 

Plot speed versus HR on graph paper. The line should abruptly decrease in slope (but remain linear) at some point; the HR at that point is your rough AT. Take note of the last recorded treadmill speed just before you reached your AT.

 

Test 2:

 

Warm up at 3 mph, 15 degree incline for 10 minutes. Use whatever settings will get you into the low end of your target heart rate, generally 60% or so of your MHR.

 

At T = 10 minutes, increase speed to your last recorded treadmill speed just before you reached your AT from test 1. After 3 minutes at that speed, record your HR, then keep increasing speed +.1 mph for 2 minutes, recording your HR at the end of each interval until you can't go anymore.

 

Plot the results on your graph as before. This more fine tuned test should give you your current AT (for running on a treadmill) to within a BPM.

 

 

 

Wow this sounds like a lot of fun! (complete and utter sarcasm) I guess to each there own, but man all this crap for what? I would just rather get on my bike a ride, put my shoes on a run or grab the rack and go.

 

Whether cycling or running is better, actually what I have notice is that if you commute on your bike or walk to and from work, that probably will help you more for climbing than getting out for a ride or run a couple of times a week.