Gas prices

[grtmtnchic]

I've read about the algae projects, too. They're pretty interesting and show promise. Of course there is no silver bullet, but it's still an alternative that should be researched -- especially if they can discover a way to generate biofuels more efficiently without needing to clear large tracts of land.

 

Then again, if everyone were vegetarians, imagine how much more land there would be to grow biofuels.

 

Just saying.

Yup, I totally agree! Have you read Diet for a New America by Robbins?

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2008 by grtmtnchic

[KaskadskyjKozak]

That's all well and good, but our fuel still has to come FROM someplace...primarily middle eastern countries as things are right now.

 

WRONG. Europe relies on mideast fuel, NOT the US. I thought you were some kind of (self-professed) expert on these matters who "knows what you are talking about".

[kevbone]

 

What really interests me is finding an alternative solution to being dependent on foreign fuels...and finding a sustainable way to do it,

 

and getting the government to release there grip on fuel profits.....

[grtmtnchic]

That's all well and good, but our fuel still has to come FROM someplace...primarily middle eastern countries as things are right now.

 

WRONG. Europe relies on mideast fuel, NOT the US. I thought you were some kind of (self-professed) expert on these matters who "knows what you are talking about".

 

You took my quote out of context...that was about "agriculture in America".

 

[glassgowkiss]

$3.57. The eco-fascists dream has come true! Wait until labor day, it'll be well over $4.

 

wrong- brilliant bush economics and strategy. a lot has to do with level of dollar. oddly enough in canada the gas did not go up all that much.

[grtmtnchic]

 

What really interests me is finding an alternative solution to being dependent on foreign fuels...and finding a sustainable way to do it,

 

and getting the government to release there grip on fuel profits.....

 

Yes, absolutely...mebbe w/o a BUSH in office that can actually happen!

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

$3.57. The eco-fascists dream has come true! Wait until labor day, it'll be well over $4.

 

wrong- brilliant bush economics and strategy. a lot has to do with level of dollar. oddly enough in canada the gas did not go up all that much.

 

cool! Then in 8 months prices will all go back down.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

What really interests me is finding an alternative solution to being dependent on foreign fuels...and finding a sustainable way to do it,

 

and getting the government to release there grip on fuel profits.....

 

Yes, absolutely...mebbe w/o a BUSH in office that can actually happen!

 

Yes, oil companies will seek lower profits once Bush leaves office.

 

Also, malaria, cancer, and world-hunger will end. There will be no more rapes, murder, or torture anywhere. Utopia will be achieved.

 

[rob]

I've read about the algae projects, too. They're pretty interesting and show promise. Of course there is no silver bullet, but it's still an alternative that should be researched -- especially if they can discover a way to generate biofuels more efficiently without needing to clear large tracts of land.

 

Then again, if everyone were vegetarians, imagine how much more land there would be to grow biofuels.

 

Just saying.

Yup, I totally agree! Have you read Diet for a New America by Robbins?

 

Yep. Good book. Factory farming is evil. Aside from the health risks posed by this type of animal husbandry, most people seem to completely ignore the huge ecological impact caused by the american obsession with animal protein.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

most people seem to completely ignore the huge ecological impact caused by the american obsession with animal protein.

 

Beef, chicken, pork, lamb - they are all yummy. All you vegans can starve yourselves and look all week and sickly, and I'll have a steak on your behalf.

 

 

 

[grtmtnchic]

most people seem to completely ignore the huge ecological impact caused by the american obsession with animal protein.

 

Beef, chicken, pork, lamb - they are all yummy. All you vegans can starve yourselves and look all week and sickly, and I'll have a steak on your behalf.

 

 

 

I'm leaving this thread now so you can sink yourself.

 

 

[minx]

they have issues b/c they are forcing up the price of wheat and other agricultural products. an increase in production of biofuels may lead to food shortage or continued destruction of eco sensitivity land such as rainforest

 

That is an interesting view point…..shortage of food? What about a shortage of US solders fighting in an occupation so the oil companies get rich and the contractors get rich? Which is worse?

 

This is what makes you so obnoxious. This thread has a pretty good topic going. Just b/c you’re obsessed w/some particular political topic does not make it mandatory that you try and convert every thread to that topic. We are not discussing the war or impact on oil prices/supplies

[kevbone]

 

What really interests me is finding an alternative solution to being dependent on foreign fuels...and finding a sustainable way to do it,

 

and getting the government to release there grip on fuel profits.....

 

Yes, absolutely...mebbe w/o a BUSH in office that can actually happen!

 

 

Bush = Oil profits.

[Matthew]

There's a bigger problem at work here... gas prices are just a symptom, just the same as the continuous extinction of species, the lowering of the water table, the slow ruin of ecosystems worldwide. THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE. We've expanded to 6 billion living on the energy savings of hundreds of millions of years. Eventually, we will be fucked. No biggie, things will continue on.

[minx]

1. city planning/ being more efficient is a good idea regardless of our fuel source. as populations grow, resources will become more limited regardless of which fuel source we're using. sustainability is important.

 

2. the economics of oil don't change the environmental impact of bio-fuels. the economics of oil are driven by the gov't, big business, int'l politics. lets get out of the game all together.

 

3. why is everyone focused on a single answer. be more efficient, find multiple sources of alternative energy. (biofuels, ethanol, hydrogen, electric, solar, other????) diversify the portfolio! we're likely to have less impact this way and more options.

 

4. animal protein can be an important part of a diet. americans eat it as a larger percentage of their diets than other parts of the world. if we moderated our intake more, factory farming would be reduced. its gross!

[Seahawks]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/351903_needle20.html?source=rss

 

If they could do this 35 years ago we can do better than 25 MPG. Oil companies and car makers are owned by the same people.

[rob]

most people seem to completely ignore the huge ecological impact caused by the american obsession with animal protein.

 

Beef, chicken, pork, lamb - they are all yummy. All you vegans can starve yourselves and look all week and sickly, and I'll have a steak on your behalf.

 

You're like the guy driving a hummer.

 

Do you know what the leading cause of deforestation in the Amazon is? That's right -- cattle grazing. Nearly 2/3 of agricultural cropland in America is ultimately intended for animal consumption. Did you know that nearly 60% of U.S. grain is fed to animals?

 

That sure would be a lot of biofuel.

[Matthew]

I do enjoy the fact that car commercials today brag about figures like 22 mpg... which is absolutely pathetic when there are vehicles out there getting 50.

[rbw1966]

and the model T got 35 mpg

[KaskadskyjKozak]

1. city planning/ being more efficient is a good idea regardless of our fuel source. as populations grow, resources will become more limited regardless of which fuel source we're using. sustainability is important.

 

Amen. I grew up in a well-planned suburb, where I could walk (and later bike) to elementary school, Jr. High, and even High school. The grocery store was within walking/biking distance, as was the library, parks, etc. Our family could get anywhere we needed to for 90% of what we needed within a 1-2 mile radius AND the streets were safe for kids to play/get around on. It just isn't like that up here. We can't even let the kids walk/bike to school 0.6 miles away because they'd have to cross a busy, steep road with speeding cars.

 

4. animal protein can be an important part of a diet. americans eat it as a larger percentage of their diets than other parts of the world. if we moderated our intake more, factory farming would be reduced. its gross!

 

I used to eat 16+ oz steaks, etc. It's true that if we cut portions to a normal size, and daily intake to reasonable levels we'd be fitter and it would have a positive impact on farming. But sorry, the extreme of "go vegan" just ain't gonna happen.

[StevenSeagal]

I just saw a list of the "Top 10 Hybrids for 2008". Half of them didn't even hit 30 MPG!!! WTF?

 

There were cars in the 80's that got 40-60 mpg. Mention that to the car manufacturers and you hear BS like: "manufacturing those will sink the industry, too expensive". i.e. "our strings are pulled by the oil conglomerates".

[KaskadskyjKozak]

You're like the guy driving a hummer.

 

I recommend you get some animal protein into your diet. Your brain has been addled.

 

[rbw1966]

I grew up in a well-planned suburb, where I could walk (and later bike) to elementary school, Jr. High, and even High school. The grocery store was within walking/biking distance, as was the library, parks, etc. Our family could get anywhere we needed to for 90% of what we needed within a 1-2 mile radius AND the streets were safe for kids to play/get around on.

 

I live in the city (as opposed to a suburb) in a neighborhood where I have all that. Portland's urban growth boundary has provided some good.

[Dechristo]

 

Then again, if everyone were vegetarians, imagine how much more land there would be to grow biofuels.

 

But, then greenhouse-gas emissions would rise exponentially with all the farting.

[minx]

I just saw a list of the "Top 10 Hybrids for 2008". Half of them didn't even hit 30 MPG!!! WTF?

 

There were cars in the 80's that got 40-60 mpg. Mention that to the car manufacturers and you hear BS like: "manufacturing those will sink the industry, too expensive". i.e. "our strings are pulled by the oil conglomerates".

 

My 1989 nissan sentra got 40-45mpg. I talked to a Nissan guy years after discover the current model was in the low 30mpg range later and his claim was that due to current safety standards the cars are heavier now than they were and thus lower mileage.