Castro Stepping Down

[JayB]

Jerrymandering? You twice argued with the assertion that I did not make that it was a new development or that only Republicans do it.

 

Ohio? You make the idiotic rhetorical argument that I am the only one who has noticed a problem. For whatever political reasons, just as they have decided not talk about impeaching Bush and Cheney, the Democrats have decided not to pursue the issue. I am not arguing that manipulation can be proven as I don't know whether or not it can. I have some concerns, though, and the discussion really hasn't been undertaken. Here's a little reading for you. Rolling Stone Article

 

As to the concluding retort of your post? WTF? OUR president is the expert on fairness in elections? Even if you apparently believe as maybe you do that the Republicans did not cheat even the tiniest bit, our system does not look good. For LOTS of reasons.

 

Even Fairweeather and KK agree with me that Diebold (they have a new name) is questionable and optical scanning machines should be the standard. I think we've established that gerrymandering should be curtailed, at least. Defensive denials aside, there should be no question about whether there has been voter suppression. The Electoral College is totally obsolete. Everyone except maybe you agrees that campaign financing is needed. Etc. etc.

 

Let's focus on your capacity to support your central claim here, then broaden our focus.

 

When that's finished, you can make the argument that gerrymandering and the electoral college render either any sitting president or Bush incapable of critiquing any aspect of any election in any other country.

[mattp]

My central claim was twofold (1) our election system is seriously flawed and (2) the Republicans have as late taken advantage of some of the flaws. Thus, I concluded, I thought it was hypocritical of Bush to make the remark he did about Cuba. As you say: lets focus.

[empire]

Alright, the Commander in Chief already wastes enough time trying to make the spoiled whimpering masses feel good about themselves. What did you want him to say, that we'll bring Democracy to them? Yes, perhaps honesty may have been more appropriate. I'm sure it'll make a fine pit stop on our way to delivering it to the Orinoco.

[Peter_Puget]

My central claim was twofold (1) our election system is seriously flawed and (2) the Republicans have as late taken advantage of some of the flaws. Thus, I concluded, I thought it was hypocritical of Bush to make the remark he did about Cuba. As you say: lets focus.

 

Hmm as of late it seems more like a Democrat issue: late

[mattp]

Good old vote fraud. So Bloomberg says there were some districts miscounted in the New York primary and it was reported in the New York Post, of all the reputable newspapers. Your point is - what? This shows something about whether or not the Bush machine or their supporters influenced the election outcomes in Ohio and Florida?

 

You’ve blown a hole in my assertion that Bush and his supporters have eroded our faith in the American electoral process just how?

[marylou]

I hope that we can normalize relations between the US and Cuba soon. We're going to have new people as the respective leaders of our new countries soon, and it's time to move on.

[billcoe]

The main difference that with the rule of law, we can be assured that we can argue these issues and endlessly slam any politician anywhere at anytime.

 

The people of Cuba have no such ability at any time or anyplace. Before or after the prick dies.

 

Here's to the people of Cuba: who kicked out some evil bad M*fuckers that were sucking them dry like parasites and got a whole different group of evil bad M*fuckers that sucked them dry like different parasites.

 

May Castro now retire to die a slow painful death, like many of his political prisoners and critics did after they were arrested by the bastard and his cronies, and the people of Cuba finally and truly become free. I do not mean as a puppet to the US either. Free. No parasites.

 

To anyone who wants to be an apologist for the dictator: fu*k you

[mattp]

I'm guessing there is lottsa truth to what you write here, Bill, but I wonder: I have not heard much good about Cuba for many years but 30 years ago I heard about how there were schools and hospitals and stuff like that on a scale pretty much unknown in the region. Was there perhaps a shining moment when the M*f*ckers came through, if only in a limited way, for the Cuban people? Am I an apologist for asking? My father actually went there in the 1970's so there is some basis for my question.

[Fairweather]

Rent "The Lost City" written by and starring Andy Garcia. An even-handed portrayal of the Batista regime versus the communist takeover (and betrayal) there--and its aftermath. Also a great portrayal of Che Guevara as the drug addicted, murdering thug that he, in fact, was.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

The main difference that with the rule of law, we can be assured that we can argue these issues and endlessly slam any politician anywhere at anytime.

 

The people of Cuba have no such ability at any time or anyplace. Before or after the prick dies.

 

Well said. It reminds me of a cold-war era joke:

 

A Russian and an American were arguing about whose country was better, and the American claimed that he was more free:

"I can go to Washington DC, stand in front of the White House and yell that the president of the US is a son of a bitch".

To which the Russian replied:

"So what? I can go to Moscow, and stand in front of the Kremlin and yell... that the president of the US is a son of a bitch."

 

 

[olyclimber]

The main difference that with the rule of law, we can be assured that we can argue these issues and endlessly slam any politician anywhere at anytime.

 

The people of Cuba have no such ability at any time or anyplace. Before or after the prick dies.

 

Well said. It reminds me of a cold-war era joke:

 

A Russian and an American were arguing about whose country was better, and the American claimed that he was more free:

"I can go to Washington DC, stand in front of the White House and yell that the president of the US is a son of a bitch".

To which the Russian replied:

"So what? I can go to Moscow, and stand in front of the Kremlin and yell... that the president of the US is a son of a bitch."

 

 

yes.....and?

[JayB]

General Ochoa is unavailable for comment.

[mattp]

"A habitual and extremely important complement in the life of a guerrilla is smoking cigars ... for the smoke that he can expel in moments of relaxation is a great companion to the lonely soldier.”

Che Guevara.

[sexual_chocolate]

 

Here's to the people of Cuba: who kicked out some evil bad M*fuckers that were sucking them dry like parasites and got a whole different group of evil bad M*fuckers that sucked them dry like different parasites.

 

you seem to know enough of the cuban people to speak for them? wow.

 

same to all you armchair qb's who are so intimately knowledgeable about another country.

[mattp]

I bet Fairweather's fair and balanced history of the Cuban Revolution is all you need to know.

[Peter_Puget]

Het Matt I didn't know you were related to Walter Duranty.

 

By the way I love your new "Tvash lite" act.

[mattp]

?

[JayB]

 

Here's to the people of Cuba: who kicked out some evil bad M*fuckers that were sucking them dry like parasites and got a whole different group of evil bad M*fuckers that sucked them dry like different parasites.

 

you seem to know enough of the cuban people to speak for them? wow.

 

same to all you armchair qb's who are so intimately knowledgeable about another country.

 

Is someone channeling the "If you aren't a Muslim..." argument?

 

One can formulate an opinion on a particular regime without presuming to speak for the inhabitants living under the regime, no? Any ideas why it may be more difficult to discern the true sentiments of Cubans on this topic than it would be for say, the Dutch?

 

 

[JayB]

Het Matt I didn't know you were related to Walter Duranty.

 

Don't be coy there, Matt....

[TREETOAD]

There are probably more political prisoners in Gitmo which is run by even more evil motherfuckers.

 

[Peter_Puget]

There are probably more political prisoners in Gitmo which is run by even more evil motherfuckers.

 

Read some Arenas While I wouldn't consider his writing as documentary I do find his many interviews after escaping Cuba revealing especially with regard to how the "left' which championed him while he was in Cuba abandoned him when he slammed the Castro regime after leaving Cuba.

[mattp]

Yes: the left sucks. We know. Does that have anything to do with Toad's sttatement?

[JayB]

Does the presence of people that you deem political prisoners in Guantanamo (which are these strict equivalents of Cuban political dissidents, in your estimation?)render the actions of the Cuban regime against non-violent political dissidents ethical or legitimate in your eyes?

[Gary_Yngve]

Well said. It reminds me of a cold-war era joke:

 

A Russian and an American were arguing about whose country was better, and the American claimed that he was more free:

"I can go to Washington DC, stand in front of the White House and yell that the president of the US is a son of a bitch".

To which the Russian replied:

"So what? I can go to Moscow, and stand in front of the Kremlin and yell... that the president of the US is a son of a bitch."

 

There's some good Soviet jokes on this page:

http://www.geocities.com/troys_tales/jokes.html

[Peter_Puget]

Jeesh you sound like a broken record. I am begining to suspect that Mattp is an AI project of Gary's.