jon Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I'm tired of paying for this stuff, it's way too expensive. I know there are a few chemists out there... what is your best guess? From their website... This product is a non-detergent soap which can be used regularly to clean clothing and equipment without damaging the Durable Water Repellent (DWR) coatings. Use this product instead of detergents or washing powder. So what chemicals are classified as a "non-detergent soap"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reid Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I found detergent that makes the same claims sold at Wal-mart for $5. It's aimed at the hunters (no odors or uv brighteners etc) but mentions that it's safe for gore-tex. Right next to it was scotch guard type stuff that worked really well on my ski pants also for $5. The only problem is you gotta go to wal-mart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I'm no chemist (where is CBS when you need him?), but my understanding is that if it contains phosphates, it's definitely a detergent. If it doesn't contain phosphates, it is not a detergent. Phosphate-free = non-detergent. Detergents remove dirt by breaking the surface tension between the water and the garment. Chemicals that do this are known as surfactants. They are also responsible for the loss of the "beading effect" on your GTX garments. Nikwax apparently cleans your GTX without the use of surfactants, but I don't know exactly how. I just know I love the stuff, but I, too, agree that it's way too fawkin' expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Actually a detergent is anything that cleans... a surfactant is a component of a detergent but on it's own isn't a detergent by definition. Soap is also a surfactant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I found through many jackets that my repellancy last longer if I do not wash it. It does not matter what techno repellancy anybody tries to sell me. The less I wash a jacket, the more repellancy lasts longer. But I do have to say that the trick to washing less is to stay cleaner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Probably some kind of non-ionic detergent is my best guess. Snag some Triton X-100 from the lab, toss it in the wash, and let us know what happens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbob Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Triton X-100 and its brethren are ethoxylated phenols and are particularly environmentally unfriendly, if that matters to you. It breaks down to produce various toxic congeners of phenol. Phenol as you know is rather carcinogenic, mutagenic, and all those other -genics. As to the composition of tech wash or sport wash (IMO a better buy) one could send a sample to such laboratories around the country that perform such reverse-engineering services at rather high cost. One might also try blend varying amounts of nonionic block copolymer-type surfactants along with a mild sequestering agent, an appropriate dispersant, and perhaps a fluorinated wetting agent. Add in some deionized water and mix at the right temperature and you might come up with something. Alternatively you might search the US Patent database (USPTO.gov) and try to copy someone else's fomulas, which works as long as you don't try to sell or give away anything produced. There is another and more expeditious manner of getting started in this area but one would need an expensive laboratory and business license to avoid legal issues. Or you could just go to Walmart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Phenol is not particularly toxic or carcinogenic in low concentrations. There are more environmentally friendly non-ionics however, such as the ethoxylated sorbitan monooleate, etc. Detergents need not contain phosphates. They most commonly contain SDS or sodium dodecyl sulfate or possibly sodium lauryl sulfate, lso the sulfonate esters. In addition to detergents, the techwash may also have perfluorooctanoate, which leaves a residue on the fabric which makes it water repellant when dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 SDS or sodium dodecyl sulfate or possibly sodium lauryl sulfate. Which are all the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmace Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Woolite for your delicates!! non-detergent for 3-5 bucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Maybe you'll have to snag the bottle of Tween-20, the Brij series, or some saponin if you want to keep the enviro bona fides in tact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Woolite breaks down DWRs big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Maybe you'll have to snag the bottle of Tween-20, the Brij series, or some saponin if you want to keep the enviro bona fides in tact. I'm looking at making a product made from coconut oil surfactant fertilized by the urine of the Dali Lama as well as casein used as a blocking agent made only from the finest Cambodian breast milk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Would limonin work? It sure cleans carpets. Plus your jacket would smell like orange juice. Looking great and smellin' fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmace Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 (edited) As long as it doesnt have fabric softner its fine..I use Zero but thought it was called woolilte in the states Jeez it just says to use powder detergent on all sites: Gore, N Face and Arcteryx..hahaha geuss ill buy a box of the powder stuff now that im out of Zero Edited January 8, 2008 by jmace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Maybe you'll have to snag the bottle of Tween-20, the Brij series, or some saponin if you want to keep the enviro bona fides in tact. I'm looking at making a product made from coconut oil surfactant fertilized by the urine of the Dali Lama as well as casein used as a blocking agent made only from the finest Cambodian breast milk. Let's keep spray in spray. Mmmkay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimbingPanther Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Maybe you'll have to snag the bottle of Tween-20, the Brij series, or some saponin if you want to keep the enviro bona fides in tact. I'm looking at making a product made from coconut oil surfactant fertilized by the urine of the Dali Lama as well as casein used as a blocking agent made only from the finest Cambodian breast milk. Let's keep spray in spray. Mmmkay? I think jon's on to something. sounds like it could be a multi-purpose staple in the backcountry. rub a little on your jacket, take a sip for nourishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I've heard conflicting stores about Woolites' suitability. Technogeeks care to weigh in? Maybe you'll have to snag the bottle of Tween-20, the Brij series, or some saponin if you want to keep the enviro bona fides in tact. My spray was better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 SDS or sodium dodecyl sulfate or possibly sodium lauryl sulfate. Which are all the same thing. Yes you are right. I was starting to say lauryl sulfonate. My breaks are short, and I have little time for coherent thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewbanandrew Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 well the McNetts stuff is also pricey but not ask pricey as Techwash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Just a side FYI: Woolite will eat through elastic. So if you have any elastic bands in your gear, don't wash with the Woolite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) Nikwax IS quite pricey. It's also much less concentrated than the formula developed by Gore Tex which is sold as Revivex by McNett. Nikwax lets you wash ~5 jackets for $10 Revivex lets you wash ~21 jackets for $7-8 Nikwax is produced in England, shipped across the Atlantic, trucked to Seattle, then re-distributed back across the country. Because it's so diluted, this is mostly a huge transport of British H2O. Woolite is mostly coconut oil, and not good for DWR coatings or gore-tex membranes. Edited January 9, 2008 by Blake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimbingPanther Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 WAY 2 GO REI!!! thank for selling McNett boat cleaner, and for not selling McNett Revivex. what nikwax pay you for dat? Mountain Gear carries the entire line of McNett products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 You can buy ReviveX at MEC. When I worked for the Dead'Bird, everything got ReviveX'd when it came in for warranty/repair, even packs and stuff. It works great!! My limited experience with Nikwax is that it sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimbingPanther Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I sense a sudden impulse purchase of like 5 of their products.... must... not... click!!! I'm really excited to try their leather & fabric waterproofer for my boots. Nikwax is pure garbage in that realm. I am so diligent in being liberal and thorough, and it works for a couple miles in snow, but after that I risk getting trench foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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