Benazir Butto murdered

[tvashtarkatena]

they're used to keep bacon flat

 

 

that's funny man. by the way, i'm jewish and i eat pork.

 

That's not the point.

To some, (maybe not you), "DeChristo"'s comments are about on the same level as the so-called "N-word".

 

Now ain't that a funny quote, "TREETOAD"? Whatever.

 

I'm offended by pompous old drunks who won't just STFU.

[Raindawg]

DeChirsto offends you. Got it. Deal with it as best you can.

 

I am dealing with it....I am providing awareness to him, you and whoever. You think that everyone should sit passively back and just "take it" without commenting???

 

No riots, no threats, no censorship advocated here....just offering a perspective.

 

A number of participants on cc.com had a jolly time peeing all over Christianity in that Denali Expedition topic....It was probably inevitable that Judaism's turn would come up.

 

[builder206]

That's a cool response. We can meet halfway. I don't have a dog in this fight, anyway.

[builder206]

Aw jeez, I said something conciliatory. I apologize. That doesn't belong in spray.

[tvashtarkatena]

DeChirsto offends you. Got it. Deal with it as best you can.

 

I am dealing with it....I am providing awareness to him, you and whoever. You think that everyone should sit passively back and just "take it" without commenting???

 

No riots, no threats, no censorship advocated here....just offering a perspective.

 

A number of participants on cc.com had a jolly time peeing all over Christianity in that Denali Expedition topic....It was probably inevitable that Judaism's turn would come up.

 

No, Judaism doesn't seek to hijack our political system to impose their cult on the rest of us; a pretty obvious conclusion to the layman, but apparently not to a self described expert. Judaism, in its less fundamentalist form, is a living tradition which welcomes questioning one's beliefs. Evangelical Christianity is a cult of zombie zealots who believe the earth will soon come to a violent end. I don't know about you, but the rest of us here seem to be able to discern a slight difference.

[builder206]

I was thinking of Meir Kahane and the direction his kind would take affairs if they could. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam each can and do produce crazy one-dimensional zealots who kill and oppress in the name of God.

 

You don't have to sneer and be patronizing when you make a point.

[tvashtarkatena]

How do you know I'm sneering? Is there a hidden camera on this thing? Hello? Is this thing on?

 

"Patronizing" to The Professor? To paraphrase Don Corlione; "Some men go through life begging to be patronized."

Edited January 1, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[sexual_chocolate]

No, Judaism doesn't seek to hijack our political system to impose their cult on the rest of us; a pretty obvious conclusion to the layman, but apparently not to a self described expert.

 

tell that to aipac.

 

Judaism, in its less fundamentalist form, is a living tradition which welcomes questioning one's beliefs.

 

same goes for "christianity".

 

Evangelical Christianity is a cult of zombie zealots who believe the earth will soon come to a violent end.

 

by god, i do believe we agree.

 

I don't know about you, but the rest of us here seem to be able to discern a slight difference.

 

actually, i think the left one is a bit bigger.

[tvashtarkatena]

At least AIPAC doesn't seek to turn all Americans into Jews nor all of America into "One Nation, Under God", as does the the evangelical movement.

 

And remember, moderate Christianity has never been under attack here, only it's fascist, evangelical form.

Edited January 1, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[Off_White]

I'm confused, did the Nazi's eat a lot of bacon? I mean, I know they killed a lot of Jews, gypsys, gays, and a raft of others in a sickeningly methodical fashion, and I know Jewish tradition eschews eating pork, but I don't quite see the connection. The Torah also forbids wearing clothing made of linen and wool woven together, does this mean that Linsey-woolsey is the equivalent of genocide?

 

 

[sexual_chocolate]

yea the jewish religion is exclusive in its identity branding: not any old riff-raff can say praise be jebus and be an in; but certainly aipac exerts an influence that does play havoc with our foreign policy to a degree that perhaps rivals the evangelical movement....

 

your second claim above is just plain silly though. i'm hardly "christian", but the attacks against "christians" in general in various threads have been uncomfortable for me to say the least. i have "christian" friends who i think highly of, and that kind of slander was ridiculous (i do have a big problem with the "christian" belief that only believers get to heaven. i think it might be a hard one for some "christians" to deal with also....?).

[tvashtarkatena]

"Slander"? In spray? Heavens no! You're "uncomfortable, to say the least"? Stop the presses!

 

Tough toenails, pardner. Don't like the thread? No one's forcing you to read it, brah.

 

The Muslims are all jihadists, right? That seems to be OK here. But when it comes to what is probably the most whacked religious cult on the planet, home of the "end timers", the "tongue speakers", and the "take America backers", you're "uncomfortable" just because these kooks have managed to hijack the word 'Christian'? Somehow, I pegged you as being a bit more savvy than that. These Johnny Come Lately fanatics (how old is the Born Again movement, anyway?) have splattered shit all over two millenia of Christianity, and their critics are to blame? Please to give break, comrade.

 

It's kind of hard to "slander" a fascist zombie world destruction cult. They're, um, kind of self sufficient in that regard.

 

BTW, we've all got Christian friends, (even Muslim ones!). Yes, that even includes us Debbil Worsh'ppers. Kind of goes with the territory of living in this country. My Christian friends, however, don't think science is bunk, fags are evil, Bush was sent by God to take back the nation for Jesus, and the world's gonna end soon anyway so fuck it all anyway. As for the bowl full of assholes who do, and who want to force the rest of us to follow suite, they deserve every ounce of ridicule they solicite by their outrageously fascist behavior.

Edited January 2, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[sexual_chocolate]

why....do.....i....waste.....my.....breath......with.....you.....

 

 

well, i guess i wasn't interested in your brain, only your body.

[tvashtarkatena]

why....do.....i....waste.....my.....breath......with.....you.....

 

 

well, i guess i wasn't interested in your brain, only your body.

 

Bromance happens. You hate yourself for it, but there it is.

[sexual_chocolate]

Bromance happens. You hate yourself for it, but there it is.

 

i got summadat and i don't even know it? damn....

[Dechristo]

Hey, MonkeyBoy, howzabout takin' a chill pill and contemplating the true meaning of "civility"?

 

hint: it's not about anyone obeying your personal strictures of conduct.

 

So, was it the horrifying thought of sullying "sacred texts" with the very substance it condemns that set you off?

 

It's all about your profound and crass disrespect. It also involves your profound ignorance of history.

I suggest that you think about it....but I doubt that you will.

 

Yep, Judaism has always had a problem with pork, particularly when it's slaughtered on the alter of their temple as during the reign of Antiochus IV. Enter the Maccabees. Hanukkah recently past, this little spat has some seasonal timeliness.

 

It seems every time you take exception to a post of mine, you supply another example of the rich irony your pomposity and arrogance only can render: the Nazi reference. A group that showed the world the height of intolerance. I submit your attitude makes for a better comparison.

 

My apologies, which I extend with the same light-heartedness as in my jest. It's nothing to me. The profundities you ascribe to me, in a sense, are true. Nothing is "sacred" to me because everything is sacred to me. You may not care (or are able) to look at this as I do, but Shaw concurred with, "The more respectable the man, the more he has to be ashamed of."

 

Have a few drinks. It always seems to assuage your concerns.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[marylou]

It was not unexpected, but I'm really sorry to hear of Ms. Bhutto's untimely passing.

 

Not getting why such an issue is being made of whether she died from gunshot wounds or hitting her head. She died as a result of the attack, what difference does it make?

 

Oh and you clowns with the arguing about religion on this thread, take it elsewhere!

[Fairweather]

Ms. Bhutto

 

[billcoe]

Goodwins law is in effect:

 

As distasteful as it is I admit I prefer the Nazi references to the plentiful Raindawg hypocritical bolting references, as I'm sure the dawg has clipped bolts then spins the reverse. Makes you wonder if he may in fact be a closet Nazi too. Given hypocrisy #1 (bolts), then is hypocricy #2 possible (closet Nazi) ? Hmmm makes one wonder.

 

Oh fuc*k, what am I saying, I really hate them both. (reference below to Goodwins law in effect). Dawg, your Nazi posts suck. So do your bolting cracks. I can see Graham showed extreme wisdom in getting the hell out of here by page 1, wish I had his brains but here I am. Sigh...

 

 

Hey Jackass! How about taking your uniform off and sit in the corner for awhile until you're ready to join civilization.

 

 

BTW, calling a person a Nazi because of a crack like that (which was pretty quick witted), not only ranks right there with your anti-bolting tirades, but is as anatahma to me as an anti-semitic crack would be.

 

I hate all of them. Sooo F*cking needless.

[billcoe]

BTW Dawg: in case you're too stupid to click the link. For your edification and enjoyment, quoted verbatim below. Next time check the thread title before posting eh?

 

"Godwin's law

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1] is an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states:[2][3]

 

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

 

Godwin's law is often cited in online discussions as a caution against the use of inflammatory rhetoric or exaggerated comparisons, especially fallacious arguments of the reductio ad Hitlerum form.

 

The rule does not make any statement whether any particular reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that one arising is increasingly probable. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact. Although in one of its early forms Godwin's law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[5] the law is now applied to any threaded online discussion: electronic mailing lists, message boards, chat rooms, and more recently blog comment threads and wiki talk pages.

Contents

[hide]

 

* 1 History

* 2 Corollaries and usage

* 3 In popular culture

* 4 See also

* 5 References

* 6 External links

 

[edit] History

 

Godwin has stated that he introduced Godwin's law in 1990 as an experiment in memetics.[3]

 

Linking by implication the purported fallacy of reductio ad Hitlerum to online discussion length had been done prior to 1990 by a poster named Richard Sexton in 1989: "You can tell when a USENET [sic] discussion is getting old when one of the participents [sic] drags out Hitler and the Nazis."[6] Godwin's Law does not, however, claim to articulate a fallacy; it is instead framed as a memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons.

 

[edit] Corollaries and usage

 

There are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[2] than others invented later.[1] For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law. It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's law will be unsuccessful (this is sometimes referred to as "Quirk's Exception").[7]

 

Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Hitler or Nazis or their actions. It does not apply to discussions directly addressing genocide, propaganda, or other mainstays of the Nazi regime.[citation needed] Whether it applies to humorous use or references to oneself is open to interpretation, because although mentioning and trivializing Nazism in an online discussion, this would not be a fallacious attack against a debate opponent.

 

However, Godwin's law itself can be abused, as a distraction or diversion, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. A 2005 Reason magazine article argued that Godwin's law is often misused to ridicule even valid comparisons.[8]

 

[edit] In popular culture

 

While Godwin's law is best known in Usenet, it has clearly spread to other forms of online communication. In 2007, Slashdot noted that Godwin's law affected an ongoing, highly public dispute between Linux founder Linus Torvalds and the GNOME project.[9] A May 2007 issue of Randall Munroe's xkcd webcomic anachronistically portrays Allied officers trying to discuss Axis military tactics, but being interrupted by Godwin's law.[10] Similarly, a November 2007 issue of Jeph Jacques's webcomic Questionable Content, entitled "Godwin Wars", referenced (and contrasted) Godwin's law and the reductio ad Hitlerum.[11] Such appearances, without explanatory material, may suggest that it is increasingly assumed that web users are generally already familiar with the adage. In its October 2007 issue and on its website, Wired published a "Geekipedia" piece that includes an entry for "Godwin's law" among "people, place, ideas, and trends you need to know now".[12]

 

The concept appears to have entered the public consciousness more broadly, as well. In 2005, the aphorism was the subject of a question in the British television quiz show University Challenge.[13] By 2007, The Economist had declared that "a good rule in most discussions is that the first person to call the other a Nazi automatically loses the argument."[14] And in October 2007, the "Last Page" columnist in The Smithsonian stated that when an adversary uses an inappropriate Hitler or Nazi comparison, "you have only to say 'Godwin's Law' and a trapdoor falls open, plunging your rival into a pool of hungry crocodiles."[15]

 

[edit] See also

This article has been illustrated as part of WikiProject WikiWorld.

Image:Magnify-clip.png

 

* Association fallacy

* Benford's law of controversy

* Grammar Nazi

* Internet troll

* List of adages named after people

* Reductio ad Hitlerum

 

[edit] References

 

1. ^ a b How to post about Nazis and get away with it — the Godwin's law FAQ. Retrieved on 2006-05-07.

2. ^ a b Godwin, Mike (1995-01-12). Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies (and Corollaries). EFF "Net Culture - Humor" Archive. Electronic Frontier Foundation. Retrieved on 2006-03-24.

3. ^ a b Godwin, Mike (2004-10-01). Meme, Counter-meme. Wired. Retrieved on 2006-03-24.

4. ^ Cyber Rights: Defending Free Speech in the Digital Age

5. ^ Godwin, Mike (1991-08-18). "Re: Nazis (was Re: Card's Article on Homosexuality". rec.arts.sf-lovers. (Web link).

6. ^ Sexton, Richard (1989-10-16). "Re: .aquaria (Tropical fish. Good enough for Hitler, why not you ?)". news.groups. (Web link).

7. ^ The Jargon File (4.4.7). Retrieved on 2007-03-01.

8. ^ Weigel, David. "Hands Off Hitler!: It's time to repeal Godwin's law", Reason, 2005-07-14. Retrieved on 2006-03-24.

9. ^ Zonk (2007-02-17). Godwin's law Invoked in Linus/Gnome Spat. Slashdot.org.

10. ^ Munroe, Randall (May 14, 2007). Regarding Mussolini. xkcd: A Webcomic of Romance, Sarcasm, Math, and Language. Retrieved on 2007-05-27.

11. ^ Jacques, Jeph (November 23, 2007). Godwin Wars. Questionable Content. Retrieved on 2007-11-23.

12. ^ Godwin's Law (October 2007).

13. ^ University Challenge. Presenter: Jeremy Paxman. Granada Television. BBC Two. 2005-12-12.

14. ^ The truth about eSStonia (2007-08-16).

15. ^ In the Name of the Law (October 2007).

 

 

* Godwin's Law FAQ (also [1])

* Godwin's Law at the Public Domain Jargon File

* Mike Godwin runs a legal blog called Godwin's Law

"

[tvashtarkatena]

Bromance happens. You hate yourself for it, but there it is.

 

i got summadat and i don't even know it? damn....

 

You probably weren't breast fed. It's not your fault.

[JayB]

Favorite Roman Saying:

 

"Offenses against the gods are the business of the gods."

 

[Raindawg]

As distasteful as it is I admit I prefer the Nazi references to the plentiful Raindawg hypocritical bolting references, as I'm sure the dawg has clipped bolts then spins the reverse. Makes you wonder if he may in fact be a closet Nazi too. Given hypocrisy #1 (bolts), then is hypocricy #2 possible (closet Nazi) ? Hmmm makes one wonder.

 

Oh f*&k, what am I saying, I really hate them both. (reference below to Goodwins law in effect). Dawg, your Nazi posts suck. So do your bolting cracks.

 

Once again (and again, and again):

Sure I've clipped bolts in my time, although very few sport climbs.

I've actually placed perhaps 3 bolts in my life. They were drilled by hand and were for belay anchors.

I believe bolts do have their RARE place [in short: to be avoided as they are permanent alterations to the landscape. They should be rare and safe; thoughtful belay and rappel anchors might be exceptions and other placements should, again, be few and far apart.]

It's their proliferation that I detest and free-wheeling, bolt-dependent "sport-climbing" is a vile offender. I subscribe to the "leave little trace" philosophy of outdoor interaction; "Sport climbing" is an utter violation. I'd rather see climbing areas closed than see them grid-bolted.

UNDERSTAND IT NOW???

 

And while we're at it....hypocrisy debates [a type of ad hominem attack] are only smoke-screens to avoid addressing the real issues....I could have clipped thousand of sport routes and still have issues with them. It might be personally inconsistent with one's beliefs, but it doesn't cause the issue itself to vanish.

 

By the way, I've never bolted a crack. I suggest you put up your evidence.

 

BTW Dawg: in case you're too stupid to click the link. For your edification and enjoyment, quoted verbatim below. Next time check the thread title before posting eh?

 

Stupid, eh? Whatever, Sparky. I noted Godwin's law in a previous post and consulted the very same link before I made my comments, specifically:

 

The rule does not make any statement whether any particular reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that one arising is increasingly probable. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.

 

The "law" [which in fact is not a "law"] is ultimately telling, yet silly, and joins Murphy's and those of other similar validity.

 

Regarding my original comment for "DeChristo" to take off his uniform and sit in the corner....you apparently have no idea how utterly offensive his comment was. For a Christian, it would probably be like spitting on the cross of Jesus. Rabbi Alfred Kolatch stated it nicely with:

"The Torah is the centerpiece of Judaism and the key to Jewish survival."

Hundreds of Torah scrolls were confiscated or destroyed by the Nazis when they razed or burned synagogues. (although a few were dramatically rescued). Some have survived and to this day have been given to newly formed Jewish congregations around the world.

The Nazi reference was to add emotional and historical power to my reaction, despite Godwin's opinion.

 

As I noted above,

You think that everyone should sit passively back and just "take it" without commenting??? No riots, no threats, no censorship advocated here....just offering a perspective.

 

Closet Nazi, eh? Looks like it's your turn to go sit in the corner....do some more "wondering" until you come to your senses.

 

 

 

 

 

[billcoe]

As distasteful as it is I admit I prefer the Nazi references to the plentiful Raindawg hypocritical bolting references, as I'm sure the dawg has clipped bolts then spins the reverse. Makes you wonder if he may in fact be a closet Nazi too. Given hypocrisy #1 (bolts), then is hypocricy #2 possible (closet Nazi) ? Hmmm makes one wonder.

 

Oh f*&k, what am I saying, I really hate them both. (reference below to Goodwins law in effect). Dawg, your Nazi posts suck. So do your bolting cracks.

 

Once again (and again, and again):

Sure I've clipped bolts in my time, although very few sport climbs.

I've actually placed perhaps 3 bolts in my life. They were drilled by hand and were for belay anchors.

I believe bolts do have their RARE place [in short: to be avoided as they are permanent alterations to the landscape. They should be rare and safe; thoughtful belay and rappel anchors might be exceptions and other placements should, again, be few and far apart.]

It's their proliferation that I detest and free-wheeling, bolt-dependent "sport-climbing" is a vile offender. I subscribe to the "leave little trace" philosophy of outdoor interaction; "Sport climbing" is an utter violation. I'd rather see climbing areas closed than see them grid-bolted.

UNDERSTAND IT NOW???

 

And while we're at it....hypocrisy debates [a type of ad hominem attack] are only smoke-screens to avoid addressing the real issues....I could have clipped thousand of sport routes and still have issues with them. It might be personally inconsistent with one's beliefs, but it doesn't cause the issue itself to vanish.

 

By the way, I've never bolted a crack. I suggest you put up your evidence for that or consider yourself slanderous.

 

BTW Dawg: in case you're too stupid to click the link. For your edification and enjoyment, quoted verbatim below. Next time check the thread title before posting eh?

 

Stupid, eh? Whatever, Sparky. I noted Godwin's law in a previous post and consulted the very same link before I made my comments, specifically:

 

The rule does not make any statement whether any particular reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that one arising is increasingly probable. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.

 

The "law" [which in fact is not a "law"] is ultimately telling, yet silly, and joins Murphy's and those of other similar validity.

 

Regarding my original comment for "DeChristo" to take off his uniform and sit in the corner....you apparently have no idea how utterly offensive his comment was. For a Christian, it would probably be like spitting on the cross of Jesus. Rabbi Alfred Kolatch stated it nicely with:

"The Torah is the centerpiece of Judaism and the key to Jewish survival."

Hundreds of Torah scrolls were confiscated or destroyed by the Nazis when they razed or burned synagogues. (although a few were dramatically rescued). Some have survived and to this day have been given to newly formed Jewish congregations around the world.

The Nazi reference was to add emotional and historical power to my reaction, despite Godwin's opinion.

 

As I noted above,

You think that everyone should sit passively back and just "take it" without commenting??? No riots, no threats, no censorship advocated here....just offering a perspective.

 

Closet Nazi, eh? Looks like it's your turn to go sit in the corner....do some more "wondering" until you come to your senses.

 

 

About time you owned up. Of course you clip the fuc*ers. Otherwise you'd be sitting at home twiddling your fingers. It's when you rant on on ANOTHER TIRELESS TIRAD OF HOW YOU WANT OTHERS TO ACT ad infinitum that it gets soooooooo old. You act like putting a line of bolts in is a desecration which Christians equate to nailing Jesus onto the cross. It's not. HELLO! In fact for your edification, it is significantly lower on the scale than bulldozing the road with major implements of destruction on Rainer which you seemed strangely silent about.

 

You cannot see most bolts from the ground, yet the road is visible from the next plant over. HELLO!? Lighten up a bit will you?

 

 

As far as Decristos quip. Dawg, re-read that and (brace yourself) lighten up a bit will you?

 

Shit.

[Off_White]

Dawg, your Nazi posts suck. So do your bolting cracks.

 

 

By the way, I've never bolted a crack. I suggest you put up your evidence.

 

I love how language can be so ambiguous and misinterpreted. I understood Bill to be using the term "crack" in the context of wisecracks, or rants, rather than an accusation of bolt installation malfeasance on your part.