dmuja Posted January 27, 2008 Posted January 27, 2008 speaking of break downs.. How do you make a Nun pregnant? Dress her up as an altar boy. Whats the best way to teach an altar boy about sex with women? Dress him up as a nun. Quote
ivan Posted January 27, 2008 Posted January 27, 2008 FECK LOCK THIS THREAD! Not just yet. Lets get another 20 page of religious bullshit then I'll think about it. 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Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science ScienceScience Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science ScienceScience Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science ScienceScience Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science ScienceScience Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science ScienceScience Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science vScience Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science Science vvvScience Science Science Science all work and no spray makes jack a dull boy all work and no spray 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Off_White Posted January 27, 2008 Posted January 27, 2008 What was the first thing Jesus Christ said when they pulled the nails from his hands and pulled him down from the cross? "THE FEET THE FEET THE FEEEEET!" Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 27, 2008 Posted January 27, 2008 THAT was really funny, in an eternally damning sort of way. Quote
ivan Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 who says there's never any "missing links?" Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted February 1, 2008 Posted February 1, 2008 Bump! Jealous Darasius Crusade for Christ on Rainier in extreme Avy conditions! Fuck yeah! Quote
Bug Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 Why are Catholics glad that Jesus was crucified adn not stoned to death? Because it is more dignified to make the sign of the cross than to pat yourself all over while dancing around. Quote
Gary_Yngve Posted February 4, 2008 Posted February 4, 2008 wow, i can't believe i didn't notice this thread until now. did much get modded out, or was VertHiker the only "outsider" posting? ====== on evolution, my feeling is science explains the worldly and religion explains the spiritual, completely orthogonal to each other. the theory of evolution is a cornerstone of science, much like the theory of gravity. i don't know why so many american christians get defensive against evolution; i don't think that sentiment is widespread in europe. heck, charles darwin is buried in westminster abbey. ====== regarding biblical literalists, sheesh, there have been so much "evolution" in orally spoken tales and text translated from one language to another, that taking each word at 100% is completely illogical. our constitution is a mere 200+ years old, and we've amended it and reinterpreted it many times. furthermore, suppose God tried to sit down with the Israelites and explain to them quantum mechanics, DNA, calculus, plate tectonics... the ancients wouldn't have been able to understand any of it, let alone have the vocabulary to write about it. ====== Regarding VertHiker's Denali trip, I hope they have a good time. I think it's funny though how as climbers, some of us are more likely to criticize a climber who walks up to us and says, "We're having a bible study in our tent if you're interested" versus one who walks up to us interjects the latest sheep joke. ====== All in all, I'm not sure any of the dialogue (or is it diatribe) here really caused anyone to reach a more moderate view... just further polarized folks. Quote
ivan Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 All in all, I'm not sure any of the dialogue (or is it diatribe) here really caused anyone to reach a more moderate view... just further polarized folks. progress is for pussies! Quote
JayB Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 "on evolution, my feeling is science explains the worldly and religion explains the spiritual, completely orthogonal to each other. i don't know why so many american christians get defensive against evolution" The fact that this debate exists is a testament to the fact that your feelings on this point are not widely shared. Do you really not understand why "so many american christians get defensive against evolution?" Maybe R.G. Ingersoll can help you out here: "Many of the clergy are now ashamed to say that they believe in devils. The belief has become ignorant and vulgar. They are ashamed of the lake of fire and brimstone. It is too savage. At the same time they do not wish to give up the inspiration of the Bible. They give new meanings to the inspired words. Now they say that devils were only personifications of evil. If the devils were only personifications of evil what were the angels? Was the angel who told Joseph who the father of Christ was, a personification? Was the Holy Ghost only the personification of a father? Was the angel who told Joseph that Herod was dead a personification of news? Were the angels who rolled away the stone and sat clothed in shining garments in the empty sepulcher of Christ a couple of personifications? Were all the angels described in the Old Testament imaginary shadows -- bodiless personifications? If the angels of the Bible are real angels, the devils are real devils. Let us be honest with ourselves and each other and give to the Bible its natural, obvious meaning. Let us admit that the writers believed what they wrote. If we believe that they were mistaken, let us have the honesty and courage to say so. Certainly we have no right to change or avoid their meaning, or to dishonestly correct their mistakes. Timid preachers sully their own souls when they change what the writers of the Bible believed to be facts to allegories, parables, poems and myths. It is impossible for any man who believes in the inspiration of the Bible to explain away the Devil. If the Bible is true the Devil exists. There is no escape from this. If the Devil does not exist the Bible is not true. There is no escape from this." http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/devil.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_G._Ingersoll Anyone care to guess his political affiliation? Quote
Seahawks Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 "on evolution, my feeling is science explains the worldly and religion explains the spiritual, completely orthogonal to each other. i don't know why so many american christians get defensive against evolution" The fact that this debate exists is a testament to the fact that your feelings on this point are not widely shared. Do you really not understand why "so many american christians get defensive against evolution?" Maybe R.G. Ingersoll can help you out here: "Many of the clergy are now ashamed to say that they believe in devils. The belief has become ignorant and vulgar. They are ashamed of the lake of fire and brimstone. It is too savage. At the same time they do not wish to give up the inspiration of the Bible. They give new meanings to the inspired words. Now they say that devils were only personifications of evil. If the devils were only personifications of evil what were the angels? Was the angel who told Joseph who the father of Christ was, a personification? Was the Holy Ghost only the personification of a father? Was the angel who told Joseph that Herod was dead a personification of news? Were the angels who rolled away the stone and sat clothed in shining garments in the empty sepulcher of Christ a couple of personifications? Were all the angels described in the Old Testament imaginary shadows -- bodiless personifications? If the angels of the Bible are real angels, the devils are real devils. Let us be honest with ourselves and each other and give to the Bible its natural, obvious meaning. Let us admit that the writers believed what they wrote. If we believe that they were mistaken, let us have the honesty and courage to say so. Certainly we have no right to change or avoid their meaning, or to dishonestly correct their mistakes. Timid preachers sully their own souls when they change what the writers of the Bible believed to be facts to allegories, parables, poems and myths. It is impossible for any man who believes in the inspiration of the Bible to explain away the Devil. If the Bible is true the Devil exists. There is no escape from this. If the Devil does not exist the Bible is not true. There is no escape from this." http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/devil.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_G._Ingersoll Anyone care to guess his political affiliation? guess I need my coffee, nothing new here. Quote
JayB Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 Isn't this what inspires you to reject evolution? Acknowledge that its claims about the origins of life - human and otherwise - are little more than ancient folklore and this opens the possibility that the same is true for everything else in the book? Incidentally - how do you feel about the admonitions set forth in Deuteronomy as a set of principles to base one's morality on? Quote
Seahawks Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 Isn't this what inspires you to reject evolution? Acknowledge that its claims about the origins of life - human and otherwise - are little more than ancient folklore and this opens the possibility that the same is true for everything else in the book? Incidentally - how do you feel about the admonitions set forth in Deuteronomy as a set of principles to base one's morality on? If you don't want to believe fine. The Bible has some good principles to live by. Leads to a good life. If you want to live for yourself go ahead. Makes no difference. But one thing for sure me and you will die someday. Guaranteed. You think nothing will happen, I think that you will stand before God and be judged. I'll take my odds. You take yours. If your right we both cease to exist. If I'm right your screwed forever. What funny here is what hate that brings up in people. Something deep inside says quit judging me. Well I'm not becuase I'm no better than anyone here, probably worse. I know what right and I do the wrong things. Anyway didn't want to get everyones panties in a bunch. Quote
JayB Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 You've just re-stated Pascal's Wager with the day-o-judgment bet-thing. There are many responses to this line of thinking that you can peruse at your leisure. My question is this: if a supreme being exists that would grant a chap like the Green River Killer a VIP pass to heaven if he accepted Jesus as his personal savior a few minutes before dying, but would condemn a just and decent main to everlasting agony and torment for his failure to do so - should such a being be revered or held in the utmost contempt? But what about Deuteronomy? Would following these injunctions lead to a good life? How about a set or moral principles to base one's life upon? "Deuteronomy 13 1If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. 5And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. 6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you. 12If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 13Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; 18When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God." Quote
Seahawks Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 You've just re-stated Pascal's Wager with the day-o-judgment bet-thing. There are many responses to this line of thinking that you can peruse at your leisure. My question is this: if a supreme being exists that would grant a chap like the Green River Killer a VIP pass to heaven if he accepted Jesus as his personal savior a few minutes before dying, but would condemn a just and decent main to everlasting agony and torment for his failure to do so - should such a being be revered or held in the utmost contempt? But what about Deuteronomy? Would following these injunctions lead to a good life? How about a set or moral principles to base one's life upon? "Deuteronomy 13 1If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. 5And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. 6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you. 12If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 13Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; 18When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God." Jay, I'm not God so how am I say he is goign to judge justly. I do know the Bible say "All men have sinned and fallen short". Therefor we all are deserving of judgement. I do know also in the Bible Jesus says he is the only way into heaven. So if you don't beleive in him you don't go to heaven. A killer who beleives in Jesus is no different to God than us. We put rankings on sin, to God sin is sin and all punishable. Somewhere in the Bible it say if you break on law, you are guilty of breaking them all. What seem unjust to us, is seen different by God. Quote
JayB Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 How about we take the whole Pascal's Wager bit off of the table and stick to Deuteronomy. In your judgment (not that of the deity in question...Would following these injunctions lead to a good life? How about a set or moral principles to base one's life upon? Quote
Seahawks Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) How about we take the whole Pascal's Wager bit off of the table and stick to Deuteronomy. In your judgment (not that of the deity in question...Would following these injunctions lead to a good life? How about a set or moral principles to base one's life upon? okay I will ask you this, can you follow Deuteronomy with out making one mistake? If you make one mistake you are guilty of all before God. The bible say all have fallen short. Jesus was the only person that lived up to the Law in Deuteronomy. That why he was perfect and just sacrifice in place of our sins. So if you can be Jesus and be perfect then your answer is yes. If not you need Jesus. Edited February 5, 2008 by Seahawks Quote
JayB Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 Seems like deciding to follow Deuteronomy would be the foremost mistake of them all but - let's leave Jesus and the deity under discussion out of this one, and say that a given person faithfully adheres to the injunctions in Deturonomy 13 99.999% of the time. In your estimation (not your understanding of Jesus or the said deity's judgment), would this person have lived a moral life? Quote
Seahawks Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Seems like deciding to follow Deuteronomy would be the foremost mistake of them all but - let's leave Jesus and the deity under discussion out of this one, and say that a given person faithfully adheres to the injunctions in Deturonomy 13 99.999% of the time. In your estimation (not your understanding of Jesus or the said deity's judgment), would this person have lived a moral life? My understanding of moral is different than Gods. So are you asking me personally or Gods view point? God view point is unless your 100% you don't make it, 99.99% doesn't make it. (I doubt anyone is close to this, Paul in the Bible said he was a wretched man) My view point I would say that person is doing better than me and is moral in my eye sight. Problem is I'm not the Judge. Answer your question? Edited February 5, 2008 by Seahawks Quote
JosephH Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 I think that you will stand before God and be judged. I'll take my odds. You take yours. If your right we both cease to exist. If I'm right your screwed forever. I'm screwed forever regardless as, if I have stand before god, my foot is going to be aiming a wakeup call at the celestial groin. Is that a sin? Quote
Seahawks Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) I think that you will stand before God and be judged. I'll take my odds. You take yours. If your right we both cease to exist. If I'm right your screwed forever. I'm screwed forever regardless as, if I have stand before god, my foot is going to be aiming a wakeup call at the celestial groin. Is that a sin? You will bow your knee and face your judgement and join the other entity that tried to kick God. Like the Indian Jones movie "He choose poorly" or you will cease to exist. Edited February 5, 2008 by Seahawks Quote
sirwoofalot Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 I think that you will stand before God and be judged. I'll take my odds. You take yours. If your right we both cease to exist. If I'm right your screwed forever. I'm screwed forever regardless as, if I have stand before god, my foot is going to be aiming a wakeup call at the celestial groin. Is that a sin? so, if confronted with All Mighty and you can not stand, and you are face down, prostrated before the almight, then what? Quote
pink Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 why is it that god can judge but we can't? Quote
Seahawks Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 why is it that god can judge but we can't? Judge this. Quote
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