lI1|1! Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Really what should happen is Evolution and Creation should be thrown out and real science taught. go ahead, amuse us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 (edited) ID is not only not science, but the Pennsylania case proved that ID is creationism, and therefore religion, under a different name. Hard evidence for this (as in damning documents) came out in the trial (rent the flick, it's all there). A previous Kansas case had already ruled that a) Creationism was religion (duh), and that b) teaching it in a public school violated the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution (duh). Evolution, on the other hand, is a highly successful (in that it makes testable, verifiable, repeatable predictions) scientific theory that is central to understanding the living world. Why teach that in a science class? Gee, I couldn't hazard a guess. Because we don't want to raise an entire generation of ignoramuses, perhaps? how would a person be an ignoramus if they didn't learn evolution. Let's talk about career fields for which the understanding of macroevolution is critical. Well, lets see. Not much really. Understanding natural selection/evolution is only central to a few sideshow disciplines, like... ....agriculture, all the biological sciences, pharmacology, pathology, anthropology, paleantology, ecology, genetic engineering.... ...other than that, not much would suffer. First, sounds like understandin genetic mutations would suffice rather than Macroevolution....second, those sound like college majors to me....not highschool subjects - what does the AVERAGE US highschool student take that would REQUIRE understanding evolution. I took molecular biology in Highschool - I don't remember needing a background in macroevolution Edited December 20, 2007 by ericb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 (edited) First, sounds like understandin genetic mutations would suffice rather than Macroevolution....second, those sound like college majors to me....not highschool subjects - what does the AVERAGE US highschool student take that would REQUIRE understanding evolution. I took molecular biology in Highschool - I don't remember needing a background in macroevolution Last time I checked, highschool was supposed to be preparation for college. I don't remember using a computer in highschool, either, but times change, eh? Look, you're starting the family, not me. If you want ignorant kids, by all means, find the right private school. I'm sure there's one out there for you and yours. After all, McDonalds is always hiring. Edited December 20, 2007 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Really what should happen is Evolution and Creation should be thrown out and real science taught. go ahead, amuse us. All sorts of things. The science of DNA and how our body works. List goes on and on, not someones opinion about how we got here, that isn't science unless it can be proved. It something that should be left to debate class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 ID is not only not science, but the Pennsylania case proved that ID is creationism, and therefore religion, under a different name. Hard evidence for this (as in damning documents) came out in the trial (rent the flick, it's all there). A previous Kansas case had already ruled that a) Creationism was religion (duh), and that b) teaching it in a public school violated the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution (duh). Evolution, on the other hand, is a highly successful (in that it makes testable, verifiable, repeatable predictions) scientific theory that is central to understanding the living world. Why teach that in a science class? Gee, I couldn't hazard a guess. Because we don't want to raise an entire generation of ignoramuses, perhaps? how would a person be an ignoramus if they didn't learn evolution. Let's talk about career fields for which the understanding of macroevolution is critical. Well, lets see. Not much really. Understanding natural selection/evolution is only central to a few sideshow disciplines, like... ....agriculture, all the biological sciences, pharmacology, pathology, anthropology, paleantology, ecology, genetic engineering.... ...other than that, not much would suffer. First, sounds like understandin genetic mutations would suffice rather than Macroevolution....second, those sound like college majors to me....not highschool subjects - what does the AVERAGE US highschool student take that would REQUIRE understanding evolution. I took molecular biology in Highschool - I don't remember needing a background in macroevolution Look, you're starting the family, not me. If you want ignorant kids, by all means, find the right private school. I'm sure there's one out there for you and yours. nice non-answer dipshit....what highschool subjects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 ID is not only not science, but the Pennsylania case proved that ID is creationism, and therefore religion, under a different name. Hard evidence for this (as in damning documents) came out in the trial (rent the flick, it's all there). A previous Kansas case had already ruled that a) Creationism was religion (duh), and that b) teaching it in a public school violated the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution (duh). Evolution, on the other hand, is a highly successful (in that it makes testable, verifiable, repeatable predictions) scientific theory that is central to understanding the living world. Why teach that in a science class? Gee, I couldn't hazard a guess. Because we don't want to raise an entire generation of ignoramuses, perhaps? how would a person be an ignoramus if they didn't learn evolution. Let's talk about career fields for which the understanding of macroevolution is critical. Well, lets see. Not much really. Understanding natural selection/evolution is only central to a few sideshow disciplines, like... ....agriculture, all the biological sciences, pharmacology, pathology, anthropology, paleantology, ecology, genetic engineering.... ...other than that, not much would suffer. First, sounds like understandin genetic mutations would suffice rather than Macroevolution....second, those sound like college majors to me....not highschool subjects - what does the AVERAGE US highschool student take that would REQUIRE understanding evolution. I took molecular biology in Highschool - I don't remember needing a background in macroevolution Look, you're starting the family, not me. If you want ignorant kids, by all means, find the right private school. I'm sure there's one out there for you and yours. LOL why is it private schools grade out higher than public. More ignorant kids in public schools than private. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 evolution is un-ingsoc? your quacktalk is doubleplusungood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Bono is now an overweight egomaniacal jihadi who stalks the I90 corridor???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimbingPanther Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Really what should happen is Evolution and Creation should be thrown out and real science taught. go ahead, amuse us. I admire your perseverance regarding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 ever notice how people who don't believe in evolution look really unevolved? "i believe god made me in 1 day!" look like he rushed it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hafilax Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Take your kids here: http://www.creationmuseum.org/ I'll let my kids read: http://www.venganza.org/ They will never teach creationism in Canada so I'll stay in Atheist heaven er... I mean... paradise... that doesn't work either... um... utopia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 why teach evolution in school? why teach newtonian laws of physics? why teach economics (which, by your standards, is everybit as nebolous as evolution)? why teach any fucking thing? the concept of free public education was, from its outset, a liberal idea - it believed that, by creating a generally well-rounded education in the citizenry, those citizens would be best equipped to rule themselves and choose sensible governors and policies - our failure to get the general population to buy into some of the key concepts of that liberal education(strict seperation of church and state, recognition of the continous evolution of human societies and its consequences, respect for the rights and views of minorities/others, etc) might well explain the current and likely to be continious fucked up state we find ourselves in as a nation. why not teach ID in classrooms? why not teach the mayan cosmology? the egyptian? the indian? if this world is the best an intelligent designer could figure out, he's clearly a fawking-retard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 why teach evolution in school? why teach newtonian laws of physics? why teach economics (which, by your standards, is everybit as nebolous as evolution)? why teach any fucking thing? the concept of free public education was, from its outset, a liberal idea - it believed that, by creating a generally well-rounded education in the citizenry, those citizens would be best equipped to rule itself and choose sensible governors and policies - our failure to get the general population to buy into some of the key concepts of that liberal education(seperation of church and state, recognition of the continous evolution of human societies and its consequences, respect for the rights and views of others, etc) might well explain the current and likely to be continious fucked up state we find ourselves in as a nation. :tup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 nice non-answer dipshit....what highschool subjects? Oh Lord, thank you for blessing me with parents that believed in the power of education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 why teach evolution in school? why teach newtonian laws of physics? why teach economics (which, by your standards, is everybit as nebolous as evolution)? why teach any fucking thing? the concept of free public education was, from its outset, a liberal idea - it believed that, by creating a generally well-rounded education in the citizenry, those citizens would be best equipped to rule itself and choose sensible governors and policies - our failure to get the general population to buy into some of the key concepts of that liberal education(seperation of church and state, recognition of the continous evolution of human societies and its consequences, respect for the rights and views of others, etc) might well explain the current and likely to be continious fucked up state we find ourselves in as a nation. :tup: :tup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 And my point is.... You Ath/Ags hate Christians because we have become politically active for the purpose of forcing our morals down your throat. Actually, I disagree. I actually think the increasing political activity of the religious right is a defensive rather than an offensive manuver...and why....because in our minds, you are trying to fuck with the most precious thing in our lives (other than Jesus of course)...our kids. How mad do you ath/ags get when someone talks about god to your kids without your consent??? Think about it. There is no good reason to teach evolution to a 7th grader - it's not foundational natural science. It's completely assinine that a 15 year old would need parental consent for ear-piercing, but not for abortion. Many of the Christians I know are opposed to gay marriage because they read James Dobson's track that walked them through the logical progression of gay marriage legalization all the way through their kids being taught about gay sex in sex ed....I don't agree with Dobson, but that's the trajectory that's been painted. If the liberal left wants the religious right to stay out of their business, here's a great recommendation. Quit fucking with their kids. You want to have control over your bodies, minx et al, fine, but don't try and legislate away parental notification laws. As a parent we are legally and financially liable for everything our kids do until the turn 18. If my son excercised bad judgement at the age of 16, drove drunk, and paralized someone, I'd get sued into the poor house. It's a fucked up society when we are legally liable for their decisions, but can't parent them. Don't charge us with invasion of privacy for evesdropping on a phone coversation for instance. You don't want religious education taught in public schools, and we don't want anti-religious teaching taught in public schools. If you don't like the policalization of the religious right...tough shit....you've created your own monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Nothing in this debate changes fact that the highest peak in North America is named MOUNT MCKINLEY. If the human race is ever conquered by The Tripods they will be free to rename it whatever they please. And they probably don't use vowels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 why teach evolution in school? why teach newtonian laws of physics? why teach economics (which, by your standards, is everybit as nebolous as evolution)? why teach any fucking thing? the concept of free public education was, from its outset, a liberal idea - it believed that, by creating a generally well-rounded education in the citizenry, those citizens would be best equipped to rule themselves and choose sensible governors and policies - our failure to get the general population to buy into some of the key concepts of that liberal education(strict seperation of church and state, recognition of the continous evolution of human societies and its consequences, respect for the rights and views of minorities/others, etc) might well explain the current and likely to be continious fucked up state we find ourselves in as a nation. why not teach ID in classrooms? why not teach the mayan cosmology? the egyptian? the indian? if this world is the best an intelligent designer could figure out, he's clearly a fawking-retard Physics and economics are far more tactile and relevant than evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 nice non-answer dipshit....what highschool subjects? Oh Lord, thank you for blessing me with parents that believed in the power of education. Believed isn't instilled. Sorry, boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 why teach evolution in school? why teach newtonian laws of physics? why teach economics (which, by your standards, is everybit as nebolous as evolution)? why teach any fucking thing? the concept of free public education was, from its outset, a liberal idea - it believed that, by creating a generally well-rounded education in the citizenry, those citizens would be best equipped to rule themselves and choose sensible governors and policies - our failure to get the general population to buy into some of the key concepts of that liberal education(strict seperation of church and state, recognition of the continous evolution of human societies and its consequences, respect for the rights and views of minorities/others, etc) might well explain the current and likely to be continious fucked up state we find ourselves in as a nation. why not teach ID in classrooms? why not teach the mayan cosmology? the egyptian? the indian? if this world is the best an intelligent designer could figure out, he's clearly a fawking-retard education it self was a product of the reformation. Evolution is a church and such seperate it. Funny how the phrase "Seperation of church and state" is not in the consitution. While I agree with the seperation, I also say evolution is a religion and goes too. Its Humanism. If they want to keep it taught then I say its fair to involve other thought into the discussion. But no, they are to afraid of other thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 (edited) If you don't like the policalization of the religious right...touch shit....you've created your own monster. I'd say the 'touch shit' is on your end, padre. The dumbshits you've allowed to represent your pro-ignorance agenda have been losing court cases by the bushel lately. Two thirds of your expert witnesses didn't even bother to show up for the Pennsylvania ID trial. Those who did got their asses handed to them by other scientists. Separation of church and state. Love it or leave it. If you don't like that in public schools, pony up the cash for private or homeschool and STFU. Edited December 21, 2007 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 (edited) If you don't like the policalization of the religious right...touch shit....you've created your own monster. I'd say the tough shit is on your end, padre. The dumbshits you allow to represent you have been losing court cases by the bushel lately. Separation of church and state. Love it or leave it. If you don't like that in public schools, pony up the cash for private and STFU. let's make a deal...when you folks can spontaneously create life with a chemical reaction, you can teach evolution - in the mean time, if you can explain why evolution should be considered a foundational science for a highschool curriculum, I'm still waiting. So far I heard "you have to teach it because its science" - thanks Ivan - why I didn't think of that is beyond me Edited December 21, 2007 by ericb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hafilax Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 You'll have to give up on schools then because logic, skepticism and reasoning are all integral parts of education and are anti-religion. You want my conspiracy theory. Organized religion teaches people to be followers that don't question what their told. The mobilization of the religious voter is the perfect vehicle for taking over the government of a democratic country in a despotic manner. It's a hidden despotism. Convince a bunch of religious leaders to brain wash their followers into doing their bidding. Tell them it's gods will. Suddenly the president is a king placed there by a higher power through the voice of the people. The exception to this are the skeptical religious people who use the teachings of their faith to live a good life helping others as was the original intention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 (edited) If you don't like the policalization of the religious right...touch shit....you've created your own monster. I'd say the tough shit is on your end, padre. The dumbshits you allow to represent you have been losing court cases by the bushel lately. Separation of church and state. Love it or leave it. If you don't like that in public schools, pony up the cash for private and STFU. let's make a deal...when you folks can spontaneously create life with a chemical reaction, you can teach evolution Nah. You come up with a non-religious competing scientific theory for evolution an we'll teach both. Oh, wait...you just tried that and lost. Deals? Why? Hey bud, we're already on top. 170 years of successfully tested theory and still going strong. You've shot 30 years of wad in two recent court cases and were destroyed in both. What is it about the Establish Clause that you guys just don't get? In any case, every day you delay coming up with another kooky alternative to evolution just means more evidential proof for evolution. If you understood survival of the fittest, you might realize just how poor your bargaining position is at this point. Edited December 21, 2007 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 let's make a deal...when you folks can spontaneously create life with a chemical reaction, you can teach evolution Well then pony up because that experiment has been run quite a few times. Basically we're down to the same argument the IDers throw up - teach both sides of the controversy. Bub - clue in. There is no controversy in science. But if you want to continue the arm waving we can bring in the Spaghetti Monster again www.venganza.org. THAT you can teach in your private school if you want - religion is not science. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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