Whale Hunting

[G-spotter]

I dunno, maybe it's like Chernobyl becoming a wildlife sanctuary.

 

Mutant

[Seahawks]

If they want eat a few Nasty bottom eater whales let them. Now if your talking about putting a net in a river and catching ever last dam Salmon and Stealhead, I'd feel different.

[Seahawks]

I believe it is not OK to kill whales no matter what your heritage is.

 

Save a Whale, kill a baby. Wow.

[tvashtarkatena]

Whale

 

Oil

 

 

Beef

 

 

Hooked

[Off_White]

Arch, that's "right" as in Treaty Rights, part of an agreement that was made with the US Government in exchange for their land. For them, it's not a privilege, it's an integral part of the short end of the stick they were handed.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Arch, that's "right" as in Treaty Rights, part of an agreement that was made with the US Government in exchange for their land. For them, it's not a privilege, it's an integral part of the short end of the stick they were handed.

 

we've already broken a few hundred treaties with them; what's one more?

[G-spotter]

if you do something wrong a whole lot, does it make it right?

like if i shoot you 500 times instead of once?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

if you do something wrong a whole lot, does it make it right?

like if i shoot you 500 times instead of once?

 

are you threatening me?

 

[bonathanjarrett]

The Makah have a standing treaty with the United States government that specifically and explicitly allows the hunting of whales. They also have a small allotment of whales provided to them by the International Whaling Commission. Their allotment is one of the smallest of any international groups allowed to hunt whales. In the years since the right was returned to them, they have not killed the number they were allowed to.

 

The Makah were not forcefully "removed" from their lands like many North American tribes. However there was a definitive and explicit government policy of separating them from their culture during the turn of the century. This included "educating" them and forcing them to become farmers not whalers. The result of this forced acculturation was a serious decline in Makah culture and the meteroic rise in social problems for the Makah people.

 

As for the use of non-traditional weapons to hunt, like high caliber rifles, the decision was made to do this to reduce the number of whales that were maimed but not killed during the hunts. Unfortunately the individuals currently hunting whales are not practiced in doing so. But they have been separated from their ancestral knowledge for nearly a century.

 

If you want to know more, read A Whale Hunt which chronicles the resumption of Makah Whaling in the 90's.

[tvashtarkatena]

On a related front, I spotted a guy sporting this T shirt today in Ballard:

 

[Ron Mexico]

If you got beef with hunting whales take it up with the Japanese or Norwegians, they do it just to be assholes.

[joblo7]

I think shooting a whale just 'cause it's gay is WRONG.! Native or not!

[Ron Mexico]

I don't think they're targeting gay whales.

[Dechristo]

On a related front, I spotted a guy sporting this T shirt today in Ballard:

 

 

In deference and respect to all forms of animal life, every fucking Homo Sapien should be confined to Central Africa, the species' land of origin.

[billcoe]

If you got beef with hunting whales take it up with the Japanese or Norwegians, they do it just to be assholes.

 

Not true Ron, but totally agree that peoples beef should be with the large scale industrialization of the killing of whales which both countries do.

 

Factory ships and mass wide scale harvesting of whales for strictly commercial reasons (only for makin a buck or a Yen) is a massive horror story which Ericbs post shows times 100, and the flip side of this dark coin for sure.

 

Thank you all for the salient points and interesting discourse on this subject which run throughout the thread. I don't think that there is a right answer, and no sane human likes to see any animal suffer.

 

Now that the coast guard let this animal sink, I suppose the 5 dudes will either go to court to get the gov't off their ass permanently, or just apply to kill another. Neither course of action is as good as if the Coast Guard had just left them alone to begin with, mabye taken their names and left them alone.

 

I hope it doesn't suffer and needlessly die like this animal obviously did.

 

 

Meantime, while this furur swirls, Japan is heading out to slaughter some Humpbacks, Minkes and Fin whales. News link

 

Full story:"Japan whaling fleet heads for hunt that will include humpbacks for first time in decades

The Associated Press

Published: November 17, 2007

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SHIMONOSEKI, Japan: A Japanese whaling fleet left port Sunday on a hunt that will include humpbacks — a favorite among whale-watchers — for the first time in decades.

 

The vessels will head to waters off Antarctica despite a potential high-seas showdown with environmental groups and a deadly fire in February that crippled the mother ship and triggered strong protests over a potential oil spill.

 

Four ships including the 8,044-ton mother ship Nisshin Maru left the wharf in the southern port of Shimonoseki after a departure ceremony attended by fisheries officials. Two observation ships had left northern Japan on Wednesday to accompany the fleet.

 

The whalers plan to capture up to 50 humpbacks in what is believed to be the first large-scale hunt for the species since a 1963 moratorium put the giant marine mammals under international protection.

 

The mission also aims to take as many as 935 minke whales and up to 50 fin whales in what Japan's Fisheries Agency says its largest-ever scientific whale hunt in the South Pacific. The expedition is expected to last through April.

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Japan's annual research whale hunt is permitted by the International Whaling Commission, or IWC, but anti-whaling activists call it a cover-up for a commercial hunt.

 

Japan, a major commercial whaling nation before a comprehensive ban in 1986, has killed almost 10,500 mostly minke and Brydes whales under a research permit issued by the IWC — and its catch is growing.

 

This season's target of up to 1,035 whales is more than double the number the country hunted a decade ago.

 

Enraged anti-whaling activists have pledged to chase Japan's whalers to the Antarctic.

 

"The Japanese government's scientific whaling program is a sham," said Karli Thomas, expedition leader aboard the Greenpeace boat Esperanza, which is waiting outside Japanese territorial waters to confront the fleet.

 

"Whaling has no place in Antarctica — it's a place of peace and science, and this is not science," she said.

 

Japan's plans to resume hunts of the famed humpback have also raised furor among some other Asia-Pacific countries.

 

In Australia, newspapers regularly run stories with headlines like "Help stop murder on the high seas." Politicians there have promised to tackle whaling through diplomacy.

 

An Australian opposition Labor Party executive, Robert McClelland, said last week that military aircraft will monitor Japanese whalers in the Southern Ocean if the party wins upcoming elections.

 

Japan argues that whaling is a national tradition that dates back to the early 1600s, and has pushed unsuccessfully at the IWC to reverse the 1986 commercial whaling moratorium.

 

Scientists say humpback whales are intelligent creatures that communicate through lengthy "songs." Although they grow up to 15 meters (48 feet) long and weigh as much as 40 tons, they are acrobatic, often throwing themselves out of the water, swimming on their backs with both flippers in the air or slapping the water with their tails.

 

Humpbacks — which feed, mate and give birth near shore — fell prey to early whalers, who depleted the global population to just 1,200 by some estimates before the 1963 moratorium.

 

Since then, only Greenland and the Caribbean nation of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines have been allowed to catch humpbacks under an IWC aboriginal subsistence program. Each caught one humpback last year, according to the commission.

 

The American Cetacean Society estimates the humpback population has recovered to about 30,000-40,000 — about a third of the number before modern whaling. The species is listed as "vulnerable" by the World Conservation Union.

 

Japanese fisheries officials insist that the population has returned to a sustainable level.

 

"Humpback whales in our research area are rapidly recovering," said Hideki Moronuki, the Fisheries Agency's whaling chief. "Taking 50 humpbacks from a population of tens of thousands will have no significant impact whatsoever."

 

Killing whales lets marine biologists study their internal organs for clues to reproductive and eating habits, Japanese officials say. Japan also conducts non-lethal research, which accounts for half of its annual whaling budget of about 1 billion yen (US$9 million; €6 million), Moronuki said.

 

Meat from Japan's scientific catch is sold commercially, triggering criticism that the research is a pretext for keeping its whaling industry alive. Some also criticize Japan's hunting methods, saying they are unnecessarily cruel."

[ashw_justin]

Why does cultural history give someone the right to a double standard? Should someone be allowed hang slaves for old times sake in The South?

[joblo7]

it is some form of 'reparation' for taking over their land , genocide,and shit. give them a few whales wtf?

[Fairweather]

I am against killing whales.

 

Agree. I'm with you and ericb on this one. Until populations fully recover, it is irresponsible for any nation - traditional or otherwise - to hunt whales. Even then, they just seem too magnificent to kill. I'm very pro-hunter, but I don't care for this at all. Killing a creature that will swim right up to your boat and allow you to scratch its belly doesn't seem very sporting - or right.

[Fairweather]

On a related front, I spotted a guy sporting this T shirt today in Ballard:

 

 

Their stategery was ineffective.

[tvashtarkatena]

Don't know about that. The casino biz is booming.

 

The man on the far right looks like Geronimo. It's amazing how long he held out against the best we had at the time. After years of pursuit, the Army never did capture him; he finally surrendered.

Edited November 17, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[bonathanjarrett]

The Makah didn't decimate the whale populations. The industrialized world did. The Makah didn't assume that the whale populations would be able to withstand factory fishing or that they could simply move on to deplete another natural resource once they had nearly eradicated an entire species. Why punish them for the industrialized world's overconsumption, lack of ethics,and failure to have forethought?

[tvashtarkatena]

Since the bowhead whale population seems to be stable and well managed, it seems fair to a) continue to let the Makah to hunt per the treaty while b) requiring them to hunt in a skilled and humane manner. If the bowhead population collapses, however, should the Makah still be allowed to hunt them?

 

Plains indians used to hunt on foot by driving buffalo herds off of cliffs and then picking a few off the top of the pile. Would we allow this type of tribal hunting today even if it were guaranteed by a treaty?

[G-spotter]

I think they should stampede more fat Americans off cliffs. It would have high TV ratings and everything.

[Fairweather]

Hell, don't you Canadian Lemmings just do it all by yourselves?

[archenemy]

Since the bowhead whale population seems to be stable and well managed, it seems fair to a) continue to let the Makah to hunt per the treaty while b) requiring them to hunt in a skilled and humane manner. If the bowhead population collapses, however, should the Makah still be allowed to hunt them?

 

Plains indians used to hunt on foot by driving buffalo herds off of cliffs and then picking a few off the top of the pile. Would we allow this type of tribal hunting today even if it were guaranteed by a treaty?

This is a good question, even though my "beef" is this situation in reverse. Hunting big game with 4x4s and telling folks that this hunting is their tradional right is crap.