Helmets and UV

[Geek_the_Greek]

A buddy of mine recently asked how long I'd owned my helmet. "Seven years or so" I answered, and he said I should retire it, because of UV damage (that it would be seriously weakened by now).

Anyone else heard this? I'm kind of attached to my helmet at this point, and would prefer to keep it. Obviously, exactly when to retire a helmet for UV reasons must depend on how often you climb (in the sun?) with it on. Given that, any ideas?

[klar404]

I've been climbing at uv rock for 10 years and I don't think I need to retire my helmet. Its funny, I haven't seen you there with your helmet!

[sketchfest]

crapin double post!

 

[ 11-21-2002, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: sketchfest ]

[sketchfest]

If you go by what OSHA say's, then you should replace your helmet after three years. I don't know what studies were done, but the claim is that UV rays will begin to break down the structure of the plastic, making it weaker and after three years of exposure it will no longer protect your mellon from simple impacts. That of course doesn't even take into account any previous impacts from rock fall or simply storing it at the bottom of your gear pile were the weight of everything on top of it can deform it making it weaker as well.

[Toast]

How about stickers and the effects of adhesive on the plastic?

 

I have a Pezel Ecrin... pretty standard helmet. The packaging came with a lot of cautions, don't do this, don't do that... don't paint, don't sticker. I've seen plenty of folks out there with personalized helmets, and I'd kinda like to adorn mine (more for identification than vanity .)

 

Thoughts?

[COL._Von_Spanker]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Toast:

How about stickers and the effects of adhesive on the plastic?

 

I have a Pezel Ecrin... pretty standard helmet. The packaging came with a lot of cautions, don't do this, don't do that... don't paint, don't sticker. I've seen plenty of folks out there with personalized helmets, and I'd kinda like to adorn mine (more for identification than vanity

.)

 

Thoughts?

---

Doesn't petzl sell a "personalization" sticker kit?

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Just put some SPF 80 on the ol' lid and everything should be hunky dory!

[Dru]

Those UV and sticker degrading helmet things are pretty theoretical. If you retire your biner everytime you drop it 2 feet to the floor while racking up, you might want to retire helmet too. Hell, ALL your gear could be invisibly degraded and unsafe. Send it to me! I will dispose of it properly.

 

Note: Black Diamond makes special STICKER PACKS for their helmets. Either 1) stickers do not degrade helmets or 2) they use a special non-degrading glue thus justifying the $13 cost of the sticker pack.

 

I always wondered why there isnt a sticker in that pack that says " I am a fool with money to burn."

[iain]

Dru those BD stickers are UIAA approved. Why else are they 16 duckets?

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

quote:

---

Originally posted by iain:

Dru those BD stickers are UIAA approved

---

What, have they been subjected to the drop test and been shown to hold a factor 2 fall?

[iain]

no they are sufficiently neon and eurotrash enough to be approved by the crackpots in Switzerland who also say your rope will fall in half if a Sharpie pen touchs it.

 

2! 2 uses of eurotrash today! mwhahahaha (thunder, lightning, etc)

[Beck]

a new helmet every seven years sounds like an appropiate schedule-

It deninetly needs to be done at sometime approaching the decade mark-

have you ever seen someone put their fingers thru a nalgene bottle that has seen extended UV exposure? BRITTLE, and I'm sure a glass or plastic lid also has similar reactions to sunlight/use.

[chucK]

I've had my helmet for more than 10 years now (and almost always wear it when roped climbing), but I figure I'm OK with it because the helmet's probably been out in the sun only about 300 days total (i.e. less than a year!)

 

edited to add: and NO, I've never seen anyone put their fingers through a Nalgene bottle.

 

edited again to add: and when I do retire my helmet, it might be fun to try dropping some huge rocks on it to see what happens!

 

[ 11-22-2002, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: chucK ]

[Dru]

better test - tie helmet to head sized watermelon or pumpkin and drop whole package off a cliff.

[mattp]

Geek-

I don't know how often you go out climbing but Chuck points out what would (to me) seem a valid consideration: if you are worried about UV exposure it is not the duration of your ownership but the number of times you've been outside with the thing.

 

I know that some rope manufacturers suggest retiring ropes, even if they have been stored in the closet, after some rediculously short period of time like three years. So I guess they think exposure to oxygen degrades a rope but I can tell you I and most people I know do not retire an unused rope simply for "old age" until it is at least ten years old.

 

My twenty year old edelrid helmet still feels supple to me, but I have bought a new one because a yellow helmet with a chip out of the rim just doesn't present the right image.

 

[ 11-22-2002, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: mattp ]

[Geek_the_Greek]

Good answers, good answers....

 

Hmmm - the whole "how many days out" thing seems like a bit of a drag to calculate once you go back a couple of years. I guess I could dig up all my guidebooks, read through all my ticked route notes, try to figure out which ones I did more than once, and get some sort of approximate value of days climbed, and sun exposure.

 

Pffft. Whatever. I guess I'll wait until the next time I'm at a gear shop, see a nice helmet, and feel like dropping some cashish. Then I bring out the flame paint and stickers again!

 

As an aside, I've always figured water-based acrylic paints to be ok on plastic. (Anyone else have old Games Workshop miniature paints lying around??)

[cj001f]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mattp:

I know that some rope manufacturers suggest retiring ropes, even if they have been stored in the closet, after some rediculously short period of time like three years. So I guess they think exposure to oxygen degrades a rope but I can tell you I and most people I know do not retire an unused rope simply for "old age" until it is at least ten years old.

---

Take a look at these test for rope aging questions:

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/raedward/cisdetrop.html

 

Strength loss is well correlatable to Rope use, not age.

[snoboy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by cj001f:

Take a look at these test for rope aging questions:

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/raedward/cisdetrop.html

 

Strength loss is well correlatable to Rope use, not age.

---

From the "7/16" diameter, and the National Speleological Society references, I am thinking they are talking about static lines.

 

The issue with aging in a climbing rope is not loss of strength, but loss of elasticity, ie shock absorption. At least that's what I always understood. Too lazy to find something to back it up right now. ALthough they say it themslves now that I look closer, "The energy absorption’s of the used ropes were, however, less than that of the standard by as much as two thirds [snip]."

 

[ 11-22-2002, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: snoboy ]

[Ade]

Reminds me of that ad for credit cards...

 

"New climbing helmet, $70.

New head, priceless.

For everything else..."

[haireball]

true story (about ropes, not helmets): back in the mid seventies, Todd Rentschler, of Eugene, OR, designed a seat harness for the members of a team attempting the second ascent of the French Ridge on Mt. Huntington. He and Ed Newville (another member of that team) decided to test the harness before climbing in it. They tested it by tying the harness around a block of basalt that they estimated weighed between 100 and 150lbs, and dropping it 25 feet from the Crooked River bridge on US 97, on a "semi-retired" 11mm climbing rope. (a factor #1 fall). The rope broke. Over the years, I've cracked a dozen or so nalgene bottles, even after covering them with duct tape. I don't know if the degradation is due to UV exposure, or some other factor, but age-related degradation seems to be real. CYA.